Comet V recall?

I have heard from two different NJT people who each heard from somebody else who heard that there is some kind of systemwide problem with the undercarriage of the Comet V that may require pulling them from service a few at a time, which would not be a big deal. But they say it may be a problem so serious it may require taking the whole fleet out of service until the problem is resolved, similar to the Flxible bus recalls of the early 1980s.

The people who mentioned this are not total nut cases, but that does not mean there are not nut cases in the communication stream. Anybody else hear anything about this?

I seriuosly doubt it, based on the older cars still in Hudson Yard and Port Jervis, etc.
They would have dragged those back to MMC to get them re-activated. There are cars returning to Hornell for warranty work but only 2 or 4 at time. A system wide recall of Comet V's would just about put NJT out of business, unless the older cars were being re-activated. story sounds like poppycock to me.

Haven't heard that one, but I have heard of cars a few at a time, like dutch said, being pulled OOS for warantee updates and fixes by Alstom, and either being sent to Hornell or to the various locations on NJT property where Alstom has set up shop.

Morristown & Erie has been performing warranty on the Comet V's for NJT... I have seen as many as 4 cars on their property in Morristown.

Steve

This is not to mention the probelms with the EPIC 2 brake system on the CV's and ALP-46's. Seems the system can become "unresponsive". So what does NJT say should this occur? Stop the train by using an emergency brake valve and do not attempt to move the train without authorization.

Yes folks, this means that when Im running down the railroad at 90 mph, and I go to put the brake on, nothing happens. The system does not respond at all. Apperently not even to an emergency application from the brake stand, although that last point is being debated.

Also, yes this has happened several times already.

Paging Joe Malinconico!!

Sirsonic -- I'm wondering how dangerous it is to put the emergency brakes on when the train is moving fast (say 50mph or higher). I remember a while back being on an Arrow that was traveling pretty fast when all of a sudden the air dumped and the train stopped. I remember that the brakes would constantly apply and release until the train slowed down most of the way, then they just stayed on. It took a while for us to come to a complete stop.

Anyway, if that pulsing-type action didn't happen would there be a possibility that the train could derail if it was traveling at a fast speed?

arrow wrote:Sirsonic -- I'm wondering how dangerous it is to put the emergency brakes on when the train is moving fast (say 50mph or higher). I remember a while back being on an Arrow that was traveling pretty fast when all of a sudden the air dumped and the train stopped. I remember that the brakes would constantly apply and release until the train slowed down most of the way, then they just stayed on. It took a while for us to come to a complete stop.

Anyway, if that pulsing-type action didn't happen would there be a possibility that the train could derail if it was traveling at a fast speed?

For the arrows in emergency arrow, are dynamic brakes used at any time during emergency braking procedures?

The train plusating like that during an emergency brake application is the "decelostat" kicking in, which is a fancy word for "Antilock brakes"

the decelostat applies adn releases the brakes to prevent them from locking up and sliding, and therefore not stopping the train. Once they detect a wheel locking up, they release the brakes ever so slightly to get the wheel rolling again, then quickly reapply the brakes as hard as possible

Ive been on trains that have gone into emergency at full speed, and of course theire is the possibility of a derailment, but not really so much with passegner equipment. But after an emergency application, the crew should stick their heads out the window to see if the train is still on the rails. With freight trains its different though, as I believe the rule is a train on any other track must proceed at restricted speed form teh point of emergency application to a point 500 feet past the train - I don't remember the rule word for word, but its something like that. Also, they must walk the train to check for any derailed cars adn shifted loads.

While there is some risk associated with an emergecny brake application, it is very little risk with passenger equipment. First, all of the cars weigh about the same, so no risk of heavier cars pushing lighter cars off the rails. Also, passenger equipment has about half the slack of freight equipment, so there is less shock from any run in or out of the slack as the train stops. Finally, when the proper circut cables are connected, as part of the elctro-pneumatic brake system on (not all) passenger trains, there is an emergency magnet valve located on all locomotives, including cab cars. Thus, when I move the handle to emergency, in addition to a pneumatic signal traveling through the train at about 960 feet per second, an electrical signal is sent at the speed of light to every locomotive in the train, which will open the emergency vent valve, thus propogating the emergency application from both the head end and hind end. So therefore, most of the dynamic forces involved are kept to a minimum and there is little danger of a derailment as a result of an emergency application.

Such is not the case on freight trains. Even with two-way EOT's, which allow an emergency application to be initiated, or propogated from the rear end of the train, if we assume that both ends are placed in emergency, it will take 5 seconds from the time of the application until all of the train is in emergency, on a 10,000 ft train. Therefore, part of the train is slowing rapidly, and part of the train wants to continue at the previous speed. Heavier cars will put a great deal of force on lighter cars, and may force them right off the rails. Also, run in and run out of slack may lead to broken knucles, and drawbars due to excessivce forces.

Decelostats are supposed to be nulified during an emergency application, as their action results in increased stopping distances. The only exception is on MU's, whose deadman switch will apply the brakes in emergency, if the deadman is released. Because it was assumed that in most cases, it would be human error that leads to the switch being released, the decelostats are allowed to function during a deadman initiated emergency application, to prevent flat spots.

Jt --
The rule says that passenger trains and light engines are relieved of making an emergency radio transmission and protecting adjcent tracks after an emergency application if the crew can immediately determine that no other tracks are fouled. Freight trains are not relieved of this requirement.

Also, a train passing a train in emergency on an adjcent track, in the oppisite direction must proceed at restricted speed from the head end of the train to 1 mile beyond the hind end. A train proceeding in the same direction on an adjcent track must proceed at restriced speed from 1 mile before the location the train was reported to be in emergency to the head end of that train.

Finally, one question I always ask any students I get qualifying on Amtrak. What is the required flagging distance on PATH? I always get a strange look, but consider this. You are headed west on track 3 at the westward home signal at Dock. You expericence an undesired emergency application. Now, due to the curve, and its at night, you cant see if you train is fouling any other tracks. A call on the radio to Dock will afford protection on track 2, and so the crew is relieved from protecting track 2. But what about that track to your north? The rule says you must protect the tracks of another railroad that are adjcent to yours, and so until Dock can get confirmation of protection from PATH, your conductor, or brakeman if the conductor should he decided to delegate, must take a red flag and some fusees, and start walking.

And that, friends, is why this forum is so captivating. Thanks, Sirsonic. Nobody explains this stuff as well as you.

Yea thanks for that great explanation!c You've always been very knowledgable.

Yea, thanks for the clarification and the great post Sir, it cleared some things up for me.....

That is why this forum is so great, I think ive learned more from this place and other websites than I ever learned in Choochoo U!!!

A good railroader (and person in general) never stops learning, and never gets closed minded......doing that kills a person, a normal person, it can kill them mentally, a railroader, can kill them physically.........

Awww shucks, Im blushing....

Class is in session, any other questions on this topic?

Actually yea, I do I do!!!

what is the rule when the train goes into an unexpected or unknown emergency application...does a brake test have to be given? I know they don't when the source of the application is known, (foot slip off the deadman, etc) but when the source is unknown, a brake test has to be given, right? Every time this has happened on my trains, we always gave an apply and release real quick, but some people have told me that it doesn't have to be done....whats yours and others take on it?