Chicago to Montréal Service

I'd like to propose a direct service between Chicago and Montréal. This service would be run on the same trackage as the Lake Shore Limited until Syracuse. Between Buffalo and Syracuse, the tracks are eventually going to be upgraded to a top speed of 110 mph. Past Syracuse the trains will run on the Massena line which CSX is currently selling. If Amtrak were to buy these tracks they could eventually bring them up to a top speed of 110. After the tracks reach Massena they terminate, this means that they would have to lay tracks, jointly with VIA, across the border meeting up with the current trackage in Cornwall. Once it reaches the Spur in Cornwall it can continue on the mainline towards Gare Centrale in Montréal where it can terminate. Feel free to raise concerns to me, as this is a service which I think would work well for a one-seat ride between Chicago and Montréal. I also propose that the trip has two roundtrips per day.
This is another route which goes through a far more populated area and Amtrak already owns the tracks in Michigan.

Great. You paying?

More seriously, why this as opposed to say working on twice a day Montreal-NYP or even Montreal-Boston?

If VIA and Amtrak can can come up with a deal to bring back the Chicago-Toronto International via Port Huron/Sarnia Border Crossing
(Less congestion than Detroit/Windsor crossing).
Then at Toronto take VIA corridor service to Montreal/Ottawa, as a possibility.
Operate the service like the Maple Leaf,Amtrak crew on the US side,VIA crew on the Canadian side

Need to get the Montrealer back on line,and have a connecting Inland Route shuttle Boston S Station-Springfield.

I would always love to see more trains on almost any route but I am not sure a one-seat-ride is important enough to get tied up in the typical LD delays. I also think don't create a long new route across thinly-populated northern upstate New York twice a day. If someone were putting up the money for more trains, Chi-Montreal might be better served by running more corridor trains along existing routes and making connections easy. No extra money needed for stations etc., plus every train added on the same route makes the service more convenient and attracts more passengers. Especially more routine short-distance passengers. Restore the International or add enough more runs Chicago to Pt. Huron and Sarnia to Toronto, plus guaranteed connection shuttle buses, to make that trip easy. Toronto-Montreal already has quite a few trains. Or similar via Detroit and Windsor. Or even add some Chicago-Buffalo trains (same route as Lake Shore or via Detroit) and double or triple the Maple Leaf or the Adirondak. Ideally you get enough trains on each part of the route that it is OK to miss your connection. Choose the route based on which host railroads are most cooperative (which might mean "have the least freight traffic but still have good track", or based on which lines have the highest available speeds, or even via Michigan just because Amtrak owns some of the route.

Backshophoss wrote:If VIA and Amtrak can can come up with a deal to bring back the Chicago-Toronto International via Port Huron/Sarnia Border Crossing
(Less congestion than Detroit/Windsor crossing).
Then at Toronto take VIA corridor service to Montreal/Ottawa, as a possibility.
Operate the service like the Maple Leaf,Amtrak crew on the US side,VIA crew on the Canadian side

Need to get the Montrealer back on line,and have a connecting Inland Route shuttle Boston S Station-Springfield.

The plan is that there will be a stand alone Boston-Montreal train. Who knows when, but that's the plan.

and lets hope that montreal boston train when it does show up goes to north station via greenfield,ma and provides connections from Canada, Vermont and Western Mass to the Maine pass service.

BB: Interesting proposition but not worthwhile judging by the low population of the North Country
of New York State. The most practical Chicago to Montreal route would be the former Amtrak/VIA
International route from Chicago to Toronto and then Toronto-Montreal as a through service.
BSH is right - and I agree - that the Chicago-Toronto-Montreal route makes the most sense.

The Customs/Immigration at the US-Canada border was and is the biggest problem that would
need to be worked out standing in the way of any new cross-border service. Problems with the
border at Port Huron/Sarnia was the prime reason the through Chicago-Toronto International
service ended in the face of daily train delays and crossing hassles such as a security sweep to
operate the train empty through the St. Clair River tunnel with all passengers required to board
a bus to cross the border and then re-board the train to continue on to their destinations.

Serving Detroit - and crossing the border by way of the river tunnel into Windsor to Walkerville
Station to connect with VIA there is an interesting idea - but this service would take extra time
as compared to the more direct Port Huron-Sarnia route - and again would not be worthwhile
unless border crossing problems can be worked out to the satisfaction of everyone involved.

MACTRAXX

Safetee wrote:and lets hope that montreal boston train when it does show up goes to north station via greenfield,ma and provides connections from Canada, Vermont and Western Mass to the Maine pass service.

If it happens -- and that's a big if, given Amtrak's current management that seems dedicated to cutting back to high density corridors -- it will run via Springfield and the B&A since that would require no expensive upgrading of slow freight trackage and also serve the second and third largest cities in Massachusetts along the way.

benboston wrote: Past Syracuse the trains will run on the Massena line which CSX is currently selling. If Amtrak were to buy these tracks they could eventually bring them up to a top speed of 110. After the tracks reach Massena they terminate, this means that they would have to lay tracks, jointly with VIA, across the border meeting up with the current trackage in Cornwall.

I'm afraid there is absolutely zero chance of this happening. Even if Amtrak's current management is replaced at some point before the whole system crashes into a few isolated corridors, spending piles of public money on buying/upgrading/relaying a low density line through forests for one train a day makes no practical sense. If you want to advocate for something practical, start with a restoration of through service between Toronto and Chicago... that at least is something that could run tomorrow on existing passenger trackage with no capital investment in infrastructure. Of course there's still the customs clearance problem at the border crossing that killed it last time around.

TomNelligan wrote:start with a restoration of through service between Toronto and Chicago... that at least is something that could run tomorrow on existing passenger trackage with no capital investment in infrastructure. Of course there's still the customs clearance problem at the border crossing that killed it last time around.

Honestly Chicago-Toronto through-ticketing is low hanging fruit if Amtrak and Via both wanted to make it happen. I did this trip via Detroit a couple of years ago (using the Windsor city bus through the tunnel and customs). All that would be needed for through ticketing (it would unfortunately be a three seat ride) is a chartered bus to drive the route between the inconveniently located Detroit station and the even more inconveniently located Windsor station. The customs process was surprisingly quick for bus passengers (although it would be a drag for folks with significant luggage).

The downside of the partnership is that Via first class will make Amtrak business class look like a Greyhound. The upside would be a daytime route to the (almost) east coast from Chicago.

Mr. Roberts: we could even start with a New Center-Walkerville Thruway bookable through either VIA or Amtrak, and let passengers book their own passage from there with the other rail provider. There has to be enough potential patronage to afford a minibus anyway?

I would think that the best option for such a service would be neither this proposal nor by way of the ex-CN/GTW route, but rather by way of the Michigan Central Tunnel in Detroit. This has the benefit of serving the much larger metropolitan areas of Windsor and Detroit bypassed by the Grand Trunk, making use of ongoing Amtrak, Michigan , VIA Rail & Ontario investments in higher speed corridors connecting Chicago & Detroit and Montreal and Toronto rather than the smaller cities of upstate New York.

Furthermore, the Michigan Central Tunnel is majority owned by an Ontario pension fund, who could likely be more easily induced to part with the tunnel than could a class I railway.

Obviously, the best way to do this is Chicago-Detroit-Toronto-Montreal. Operating via the Detroit river tunnel would require new stations in Detroit and Windsor and a new connection to the existing VIA route in Windsor but would be way more practical and useful than buying and rebuilding a route through the forests of northern New York state.

Chicago to Montreal via New York State makes little to no sense at all. I doubt if it could be done with just one night on the road, slow trackage in New York State and a lot more miles to cover as well. Chicago to Montreal via Port Huron/Sarnia and Toronto might be able to be accomplished in one long day trip and makes a lot more sense than does New York State. I would love to see a passenger train between Syracuse and Massena but as a stand alone New York State operation. The roads are less than great, there are some good sources of ridership and the costs might be reasonable.
As for Boston - Montreal there are two possibilities one via Portland and the old Grand Trunk, they could interchange at either Yarmouth Junction or Danville Junction and a one day trip is possible. The other via Greenfield out of North Station (better than South Station in this case) could happen too with some dollars for a bit of upgrading although I suspect the line between Fitchburg and Greenfield is better than some on here think it is and it is a lot shorter than via Springfield as well as a straight away connection at either Greenfield or East Deerfield. I think something could happen here sometime down the road, I hope so.
Noel Weaver

Noel Weaver wrote:Chicago to Montreal via New York State makes little to no sense at all. I doubt if it could be done with just one night on the road, slow trackage in New York State and a lot more miles to cover as well. Chicago to Montreal via Port Huron/Sarnia and Toronto might be able to be accomplished in one long day trip and makes a lot more sense than does New York State. I would love to see a passenger train between Syracuse and Massena but as a stand alone New York State operation. The roads are less than great, there are some good sources of ridership and the costs might be reasonable.
As for Boston - Montreal there are two possibilities one via Portland and the old Grand Trunk, they could interchange at either Yarmouth Junction or Danville Junction and a one day trip is possible. The other via Greenfield out of North Station (better than South Station in this case) could happen too with some dollars for a bit of upgrading although I suspect the line between Fitchburg and Greenfield is better than some on here think it is and it is a lot shorter than via Springfield as well as a straight away connection at either Greenfield or East Deerfield. I think something could happen here sometime down the road, I hope so.
Noel Weaver

Agreed on the Fitchburg to Greenfield part. The Boston Surface Railroad is planning to eventually bring service to Ayer, Ma if this route also stopped there that would be three services stopping at that station which could bring it back to the days when there were direct trains to Montréal from there. They also don't have to deal with CSX on this route when opposed to the Inland Route from Worcester to Springfield. I still think that the best, yet least likely to happen route, would be going Boston North Station to Montréal through New Hampshire, but this requires the addition of approximately 70 miles of trackage being placed.

I think that the best plan for crossing the border is to have people board the train on a certain car if they are going international and at the border allow the train to continue running, but have an agent board the train and check everyone's papers.