Catskill Mountain Railroad (CMRR) Discussion - 2014

I read this news on Facebook earlier, and it is amazing news. The passenger volume that will be generated by this is going to be pretty incredible.

Saturday, March 8th

Cornell Street Yard will open at 9:30am. Joe Michaels will be working on the electrical system for Coach 2940, and Mark Glaser will lead a crew working on track equipment in the yard and replacing the windows on the south side of Coach 2940. Both could use additional hands helping out.



Ernie Hunt
Volunteer Coordinator
CMRR

Saturday March 8th


In Kingston, Earl Pardini and Joe Michaels led a crew that included George Bain, Tom Whyte, Rick Desir, Tyler Carelli, Neil Remsen, Peter Fluchere, John Marino, Jim Bruck, and Walt Otto. They continued work on the 2940's generator, and removed one of the south side windows in preparation for installing new windows.

In Phoenicia, George Peck began cleaning up the Phoenicia yard getting ready for trackwork.


Ernie Hunt
Volunteer Coordinator
CMRR

Interesting ruling from the Supreme Court today.
http://blogs.wsj.com/law/2014/03/10/sup ... rails-case" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

The Supreme Court ruled Monday the federal government has no claim to rights of way that railroads abandon after receiving them from Congress—a victory for property owners that could undermine plans for a nationwide network of recreational trails.

I wonder what impact this will have on the plans of the County, if any?

Almost certainly no effect, since the U&D was not granted any land as an incentive to run their railroad through federally-owned land.

Even through Kingston? When word of that decision spreads a lot of people that don't like railroads in their backyard are going to check into easements. There's nothing they can do to an active RR of course, but if CMRR is forced out - a whole can of worms could open. More legal expense for the county. it would of course be far smarter if they just went rail with trail... it may be their only way to actually get a complete trail.

DogBert wrote:Even through Kingston? When word of that decision spreads a lot of people that don't like railroads in their backyard are going to check into easements. There's nothing they can do to an active RR of course, but if CMRR is forced out - a whole can of worms could open. More legal expense for the county. it would of course be far smarter if they just went rail with trail... it may be their only way to actually get a complete trail.

It won't matter, because the county isn't going to abandon the railroad. They're going to railbank it, in which case easements don't get extinguished (assuming there are any, of course).

I'm only learning about the ins and outs of railbanking at the moment - so definitely correct me if I'm wrong.

If this article is valid, it seems there have been a few court cases where railbanking didn't hold up.
http://www.mainjustice.com/2012/02/17/r ... courtroom/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Looks like there's at least one law firm going after this business:
http://www.bscr-law.com/?t=5&LPA=3001&format=xml&p=5253" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

My guess it all depends on who owns land next to the ROW. NYC owns around the reservoirs, but elsewhere along the route? In kingston proper? You could see NYC gov want to reclaim the ROW through their property under the usual guise of keeping it 'secure'.

My gut just tells me if the county wants to take out the rails, there could be a whole separate legal quagmire opened which renders the creation & opening of a trail a taller order, at added legal expense to the county just to fend off the cases, as well as potentially having to pay for the land.

Saturday, March 15th

In Phoenicia, George Peck will lead a crew starting at 9:30am at Phoenicia Station.

In Kingston, Joe Michaels and Mark Glaser will be working in Cornell Street yard starting at 9:30am. They will continue working on the 2940's generator and replacing windows on the south side of the car.


Sunday, March 16th

Work may be continuing on coach 2940 at Cornell Street. Please check email late Saturday for confirmation.


Ernie Hunt
Volunteer Coordinator
CMRR

After doing some looking around on Google for "Ulster and Delaware easements" I have found several pages which note that the easement granted to the U&D for a new right of way by the City of New York was for "railroad purposes." This easement was then transferred to the NYC, PC, Ulster County, and then CMRR through their lease with the county. Can someone tell me, if everything is railbanked that passes through DEP property is there still an easement even though there is no longer a valid "railroad purpose?"

In December, 2013 Ulster County and NYC DEP signed an agreement which pretty much says that the City commits $2 million to this project which runs through their property, does this agreement eliminate the need for 1912 Ulster and Delaware easement by any chance?

map193 wrote:Can someone tell me, if everything is railbanked that passes through DEP property is there still an easement even though there is no longer a valid "railroad purpose?"

That is my understanding. The "railroad purpose" is preserved even though the tracks are pulled up because the railroad can put tracks down any time it wants.

One thing I'd like to add to this discussion is something I read once that railbanking is just a fancy word for "land-grab". That having been said I'm ASSUMING the county would have to prove in their railbank request that there would be a legitimate chance for rail to return in the future if the oppurtunity or need exsisted. In other words if the purpose of railbanking is to preserve the ROW in case of a future return of rail service, wouldn't the county have to prove that such a future did indeed exsist? If not, how would the railbank process ensure this is not a land-grab?

Keep in mind though I hope this NEVER happens!

With respect to rail banking, the STB has some helpful info in this publication:

http://www.stb.dot.gov/stb/docs/Abandon ... tives1.pdf

See especially page 30.

Friday, March 14th

On Friday, Ryan Lennox cut brush near Hurley Mountain Road.


Saturday, March 15th

On Saturday, work continued on Coach 2940's generator and south side windows. The generator ran well, and the heating system in the coach was reactivated. The first new window on the south side was fully installed, and two new ones cut for installation. Participating today were Joe Michaels, Mark Glaser, Tom Whyte, Earl Pardini, Walt Otto, Tyler Carelli, Dave Hilliard, Jesse Gabron, Fred Rasmussen, George Bain, Jim Bruck, Rich Desir, and John Marino.

In Phoenicia, George Peck and Neil Remsen did work opening up the Phoenicia yard.


Ernie Hunt
Volunteer Coordinator
CMRR

Saturday, March 22nd

On Saturday, Joe Michaels plans to lead a team on coach 2940 starting at 9:30am at Cornell Street. Plans are to continue work on the generator and to continue work installing new windows.

George Peck plans to start at 9:30am at the Phoenicia Yard planning to get things in Phoenicia ready for service.

Sunday, March 23rd

Those who would like to continue to work on Coach 2940 please inform Earl to make sure the yard is open. Suggested time is 10am.


Ernie Hunt
Volunteer Coordinator
CMRR