Catenary in GCT

Dear all,

without results, I have searched the board for finding pictures of the "catenary" or maybe better described as the suspended overhead rail that was used in GCT in places where the gap between two third rail sections was too long. Does anybody know of a source for pictures? It would also be interesting to know if parts of that system had survived until today?

Thanks for your answers!
Best wishes, Andrew

Entire system was removed in 1990's after the E10b's were retired, when looking out front window some outlines are still visible on ceiling.
it was same rail as old third rail, suspended of insulators mounted on hard wood boards.

using word catenary for overhead third rail is not correct !!

DutchRailnut wrote:
using word catenary for overhead third rail is not correct !!

True, that is why I used ".." on that term

Thanks for your answer. I guess that e.g. on ladders, the suspended rail was also designed with a branching part, like the switch below to allow pantographs to enter it from the side. Is that correct?

BR, Andrew

no it was centered over track and just had other rail bolted to it for diverting route.

The overhead third rail in Grand Central Terminal was most needed for the electric switchers that moved some pretty heavy drags (long strings of passenger cars) in past years in areas where there were gaps in the third rail. All of the straight electric locomotives had a third rail pantograph for use in these gaps. This could especially be a problem with the short "S" motors as well as the Niagara Junction motors but by then we didn't have the long trains that we had with the "S" motors. Normally outbound passenger trains out of the upper level did not use them at all and inbound passenger trains often didn't need them either but it was and is uphill from old Tower U to Tower A and occasionally to keep the train stretched and allow for a smoother ride we would occasionally use one inbound. The first thirty FL-9's also had them but they did not work out in this case because both the pantograph and tie wiring was too light for the amperage draw that occurred with their use so they were almost immediately disabled and eventually removed and the second bunch of FL-9's were not even equipped with them. Most of the trains had a pair and it was not that often that you left third rail with both engines and one would get the train through the gaps. Another alternative if necessary you could always start the diesels up again to get you through the gap if need be.
Noel Weaver

another problem with FL-9 was that overhead pan was located at front of boiler hatch, near open roof area were winterization hatch is, any arcing would result in sparks falling down in engine room near woodward governor and drain pan for michiana oil filter tank, and we all know what sparks and fuel will do in long run.

Everyone:

Interesting topic about overhead third rail in GCT and insight about equipped locomotives...

I will add that the New York Central once operated a under running third rail electrification in the Detroit terminal centered around the
Detroit-Windsor Tunnel that did have overhead third rail installed at long switches and interlockings that was abandoned and removed
in the late 1950s in favor of through diesel operation.

I found this topic in the NYC Forum that dates from just two days after my join date in 2005 - 2/9/2005 - that mentions the assigned NYC locomotives...
viewtopic.php?f=93&t=10791" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

The Detroit-Windsor Tunnel was enlarged by CP Rail in 1994 - this video contains historical information - note that third rail is visible in some pictures...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fnSfOuCJdR4" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Any sources to study further the NYC Detroit electrification such as NYCHS Central Headlight?

MACTRAXX

Slightly off-topic but there is an interesting picture of MO from way back that appears to show the same overhead third rail running through the interlocking. I don't know what else it could have been. The picture is on the MNR Instagram page. The caption says the picture is from 1906.

the Melrose tunnel use to have same overhead third rail, the mounting plates are still visible.

Gents, many thanks for your answers, that is very interesting!

BR, Andrew

Andrew, here's a few interesting pics. These are both from Don Ross's website and are of the Detroit tunnel electrification which used similar motive power and overhead third rail for gaps. I can't find a great picture of it, but the first pic shows what appear to be immense signal bridges behind the train. That's actually a lattice bridge and longitudinal support structure for overhead third rail at a complex interlocking/switch system. Unlike catenary which could have support points 100' apart, there were lattice cross bridges plus lattice work parallel to the tracks to support the overhead third rail. It was quite a complex structure.
http://donsdepot.donrossgroup.net/dr0901/drt7505.jpg" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Second is just a steeple cab where you can clearly see the mini-pans up.
http://donsdepot.donrossgroup.net/dr0101/dl631.jpg" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

This happens when one has too many books: I have found a picture on which the overhead rail in GCT can (barely) be seen in the book "Diesels to Park Avenue" on page 76.

Best regards, Andrew