Cancelling the Dummy to Valpo

I found this excellent photo stream
http://www.flickr.com/groups/932473@N23 ... 157127116/
about the Amtrak and Conrail operation of the Dummy.

Think about the cancellation for a moment. It happened because the state wouldn't fund NICTD to take over the Amtrak route. Over the next ten years, the American economy boomed, jobs were created, and commuter rail demand went so high, that for the first time in decades, transit and regional rail also boomed. Think of the prosperity that could've come to NW Indiana by enabling residents to commute to good jobs in Chicago. It would have made a difference, because now we're trying to start what is essentially the same service but from the ground up. What a short-sighted move on Indiana's part.

Tadman wrote:I found this excellent photo stream
http://www.flickr.com/groups/932473@N23 ... 157127116/
about the Amtrak and Conrail operation of the Dummy.

Think about the cancellation for a moment. It happened because the state wouldn't fund NICTD to take over the Amtrak route. Over the next ten years, the American economy boomed, jobs were created, and commuter rail demand went so high, that for the first time in decades, transit and regional rail also boomed. Think of the prosperity that could've come to NW Indiana by enabling residents to commute to good jobs in Chicago. It would have made a difference, because now we're trying to start what is essentially the same service but from the ground up. What a short-sighted move on Indiana's part.

Agreed. $1.5 million then would have kept the service running. Now ... the best hope seems to be the Midwest Regional High Speed Rail initiative to get that track back in service.

Indiana still hasn't demonstrated that they really want to do ANYTHING for passenger rail. The reason most of Amtrak's trains don't stop at the Hammond-Whiting station is because IN refused to chip in on funding trains that Michigan was largely paying for but passed through the state. I'd at least expect IN to chip in to get service from a train that already exists before they go and start re-instituting routes that quit running 20 years ago. And they've shown no indication that they intend to do the former.

I can see that being a strategy move. The state might believe strongly in commuter trains but not much for LD. They fun NICTD trains fairly well, and had the late 1990's growth happened in the late 1980's, they'd probably have kept the Dummy, too. It's kind of a cart/horse thing between the Dummy and the late 1990's growth of Valpo/NWI.

NICTD funding only comes from four counties (Lake, Porter, La Porte & St. Joseph) which the South Shore serves, and the Chicago RTA. Its subsidies are gathered through a tax assessed only in those counties. The capital in Indianapolis essentially has nothing do with it.

It's similar to the way that every time Metra/the CTA/Pace need a funding increase, tons of congresspeople outside of Chicagoland claim they don't benefit (which not true) from any tax increase which will give the transit agencies in Chicago proper funding. Except in Indiana, the "big metropolitan area" with commuter trains is too small to throw in enough pro-transit congressional votes to match or beat all the congressional votes who think that passenger rail is a waste of money, should make a profit, etc.

byte wrote:NICTD funding only comes from four counties (Lake, Porter, La Porte & St. Joseph) which the South Shore serves, and the Chicago RTA. Its subsidies are gathered through a tax assessed only in those counties. The capital in Indianapolis essentially has nothing do with it.

Local funds only cover a portion (10% in 2008) of NICTD's operating expenses. The rest comes from State and Federal Funds (27% and 11% respectively in 2009) and the farebox (46% in 2008 - 5% were listed as "other funds"). Capitol costs in 2008 were covered by State and Federal funds (78% state, 22% federal) with the state putting up $38 million total in operating and capitol costs and the feds contributing around $12 million total. (source)

There is a state Commuter Rail Service Fund which is a portion of state sales tax that goes to NICTD. The state also used to use the CSS&SB's property taxes to fund NICTD but that was before NICTD owned the line.

I've been looking for an exact reference, but as far as I can tell everyone in Indiana who buys anything taxable is paying something toward NICTD.

So if I'm understanding it right, NICTD was originally created by the State of Indiana in response to the CSS&SB's bankruptcy as a MTD (mass transit district, similar to several others in the Chicago area created in the 70's, which acted as a conduit for federal capital grants, but otherwise had no authority to operate any service). Most are gone now, but a couple, like WSMTD still exist today as paper companies. I believe NICTD's legislation occurred about a year or two after Illinois created the RTA Act, not sure but I'm certain it was already established by the time Amtrak started its rumblings about wanting out of the Valpo service (circa 1980 or so). Since NICTD was running the South Shore by 1990 anyway, I guess the real question is why didn't the State of Indiana authorize NICTD to assume the operations of both services sooner, thus saving the Valpo line?

I stand corrected on the funding issue. NICTD only lists board members on their website from the four counties I mentioned above, so I assumed that's where all the money is coming from.

doepack wrote:Since NICTD was running the South Shore by 1990 anyway, I guess the real question is why didn't the State of Indiana authorize NICTD to assume the operations of both services sooner, thus saving the Valpo line?

The state did what was necessary when necessary and not much more.

In 1972 CSS&SB opted out of Amtrak as Amtrak took over intercity passenger service nationwide.
In 1976 Conrail took over the Penn Central operation of the dummy to Valparaiso.
In 1977 NICTD was formed as an agency that could receive government funds to support passenger service.
In 1979 NICTD received federal grants for new cars and to upgrade the track and power systems.
Meanwhile Amtrak took over the dummy.
In 1982 NICTD received the first new cars for the South Shore service, completely replacing the orange rattlers in 1983.
In 1989 CSS&SB went bankrupt and in order to protect the passenger service NICTD bought the line (in 1990).
In 1991 Amtrak canceled the dummy ... NICTD offered to run it for $1.5 million but the state refused the offer. (Amtrak wanted $2.5 million from the state to continue service.)

If the CSS&SB had not gone bankrupt I doubt NICTD would have bought the line. It was necessary at the time. It also protected their investment in the new cars and track work done in the 1980's. There was no investment on the Valparaiso line to protect. It would have been a good time for the state to step up but the requested investment ($1.5 million) would have only paid for the lease of a trainset. Track improvements would have been extra.

CSS&SB was pretty much dragged into bankrupcy because then-owner Venango River Corp went bankrupt when it sank all its capital funds into the doomed Chicago Missouri & Western (which I noticed for some reason VRC claims on its website the CM&W continues to exist today!).

The man behind VRC and the final President of South Shore before the bankruptcy is dead as of a year(ish) ago. John Darling. He had a lot of stuff on that website that he was invested in, but obviously UP and KCS own the former CM&W, and Cali Northern is embargoed I think. He posted on here a few years ago but it was not a healthy exchange and he left, despite my efforts to moderate between him and another former employee.

Interesting tid bits about the valpo I only got to see it a handful of times myself and never got to photo capture it. Looking at the prices posted to keep the service I ask if anyone knows knows the details why NICTD estimated 1.5 million to run the valpo VS. the 2.5 amtrak wanted? Was the difference in price estimated differently due to a change in the route? possibly NICTD using some of there existing trackage for the route and Randolph st station and not using NW trackage & Union station?

when I first heard of the Valpos possible return I was expecting NICTD to use there existing trackage up until Gary and branching off from there to the old route the valpo used...
http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&source= ... 4&t=h&z=19
A turnout connection already existed in this area, and the land space where the tracks were installed is still somewhat available. I wonder if used could have brought the cost down even further from the estimated 1.5 mill NICTD was asking for to continue the route in the early 90s, or could this have been there idea all along, and the reason why NICTD's bid was 1 mill lower than Amtraks?
However that will not be the case with the new route due to the acknowledgement the Lowel line is also in the works

buddah wrote:Interesting tid bits about the valpo I only got to see it a handful of times myself and never got to photo capture it. Looking at the prices posted to keep the service I ask if anyone knows knows the details why NICTD estimated 1.5 million to run the valpo VS. the 2.5 amtrak wanted? Was the difference in price estimated differently due to a change in the route? possibly NICTD using some of there existing trackage for the route and Randolph st station and not using NW trackage & Union station?

NICTD would have kept the same route. The 1.5 million would have gone to leasing a train set. Perhaps they underestimated but NICTD does fairly well at farebox recovery. Where they likely would have needed more money would have been for track maintenance ... especially if Conrail failed to keep the line up to passenger standards (a failure which was accomplished with the abandonment and CSX's leasing to CFER).

when I first heard of the Valpos possible return I was expecting NICTD to use there existing trackage up until Gary and branching off from there to the old route the valpo used...
http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&source= ... 4&t=h&z=19
A turnout connection already existed in this area, and the land space where the tracks were installed is still somewhat available. I wonder if used could have brought the cost down even further from the estimated 1.5 mill NICTD was asking for to continue the route in the early 90s, or could this have been there idea all along, and the reason why NICTD's bid was 1 mill lower than Amtraks?
However that will not be the case with the new route due to the acknowledgement the Lowel line is also in the works

I didn't know about the Dummy when I first heard of the West Lake Valpo and Lowell plans ... the more I looked into West Lake the more it seemed to be finding a use for a corridor than providing a demanded service. Service to Valpo and Lowell may be better accomplished by NOT using the Munster track.

Branching off of the South Shore main line in Gary makes more sense for Valpo. The line will have to be restored to Tolleston but the ROW is still there and is only 1.4 miles. Building a connection off of CP 61.5 at Clark is about a half mile away so there would be about two miles of "new" rail needed.

The stations to the west either have low level platforms (East Chicago's east platform) or have space to have one added cheaply (Hammond and Hegewisch) for a low boarding train. Millennium station has a low level platform serving two tracks with a diesel tie off still in service on one track ... while dual power would be better the station could still handle a diesel train (although leaving it idle there probably would not be a good idea). Van Buren also has a low level platform available.

For the annual price of a train set, two miles of track and upgrades to interlockings at Clark and Tolleston, paving for platforms on the CFER and whatever repairs are needed on the CFER Valparaiso could be served again. If the service is successful improvements could be made over time. The problem I see is wanting to restore the Dummy with service levels that immediately exceed the Dummy. One inbound, one outbound could be done more cheaply than two rush trains and a midday reverse trip. But would a one train service level be enough to meet demand? I suppose that's why I let experts handle these decisions.

One other thought ...
Gary Airport wants to relocate the South Shore station at Clark Rd ... That has annoyed me for years as I assumed they wanted to wrap it around their airport slowing the line for through passengers. I found an airport plan a few months ago that showed where they wanted the station ... next to Cline Ave. It would be on the current NICTD line between the EJ&E and SR 912 - NOT along the east edge of the airport where the MWRRI would restore the Conrail line. The airport is in the process of redoing their plan so anything could happen, but IF they built a station at Cline Ave a transfer platform could be placed there for Dummy trips to Valpo ... which would allow the South Shore to run a shuttle service from Valparaiso to Cline Ave and use existing cars to get in to Chicago. (Although arranging meets would be a pain and a slow Valpo train could gum up the efficient South Shore traffic.)

I think the ridership possibilities would be much greater on the Munster route, passing through such growing and prosperous places as Munster, Highland, Schererville and Merrillville (all prime residential places for people who might find jobs in downtown Chicago), while the old PRR route would simply duplicate existing service through Gary and then pass through Hobart (another growing place, for sure, but only one town) before arriving in Valpo.

I'm going to ask what is probably obvious to others, but why was the train called the "Dummy"?