Can the NYS&W revival of the 1980s happen in 2010s?

Thinking back, about 30 or so years ago, when the NYS&W was down to being a weed choked, almost gone short line/industrial railroad, and new inovative ownership along with changing rail traffic paterns bringing it back to importance, once the economy gets back on track, what are the chances of it becoming an importand player again? During the recent economic slowdown, NS and CSX have retrenched from adding capacity, and additional capacity could be added by using The Suquehanna without any major investments. Can the 80's happen all over again?

Other than construction debris volumes rebounding, I doubt it. The NYS&W currently has no expansive yard or property on the east end to accommodate new traffic.

I also doubt CSX or NS will need the NYS&W to shuttle trains for them as both those railroads have continued to invest in their physical plants on parallel routes during the downturn.

trainwayne1 wrote:Thinking back, about 30 or so years ago, when the NYS&W was down to being a weed choked, almost gone short line/industrial railroad, and new inovative ownership along with changing rail traffic paterns bringing it back to importance, once the economy gets back on track, what are the chances of it becoming an importand player again? During the recent economic slowdown, NS and CSX have retrenched from adding capacity, and additional capacity could be added by using The Suquehanna without any major investments. Can the 80's happen all over again?

Keep dreaming! I'm sorry, but I just don't see anything you envision ever happening, at least not anytime soon.

It would be nice though!

Ever see Dumb and Dumber where the guy asks if his chances are 1 in 100 and she she replies, more like one in a million? The same chances exist for the NYSW to become a large player in the Northeast again. There is no yard space in NJ, no connections in Binghamton and a lease that says they cannot move anyone else's traffic. They are owned by other, larger railroads and who want no other competition and they cannot make decisions without their consent. They have slow railroad with no passing sidings and they cannot figure out how get crews together to run more than one train over their railroad at a time. CSX won't even think about them when it comes to detours anymore, whether it is for track work or wrecks. NS only throws them a bone because of tax breaks on the Southern Tier. Face it, when Conrail died, so did the NYSW's chances..... This is the best they will be for the future... until the larger roads let them die out.

The Erie threw the NYS&W to the sharks in bankruptcy in the late 30's, the L&NE died in 1961, then the L&HR in 1976. The NYS&W was dead then, right? Much stranger things have happened in RR history.

trainwayne1 wrote:Can the 80's happen all over again?

Traffic doesn't appear out of nowhere... I think you pretty much answered your own question. We could discuss this endlessly for weeks, but I think we're going to come up with the same conclusions...

Otto Vondrak wrote:

trainwayne1 wrote:Can the 80's happen all over again?

Traffic doesn't appear out of nowhere... I think you pretty much answered your own question. We could discuss this endlessly for weeks, but I think we're going to come up with the same conclusions...

Which begs the question, why then, do CSX and NS even bother to keep the NYS&W intact.......CD could be handed off to either one of them in Little Ferry or Croxton and they would get a bigger portion of the line-haul revenue, and local traffic on the southern division could be handled as a branch line to Sparta.

Its kept in tact and under CSX / NS control, because it gives the appearance of competition in the tri-state area. Additionally, if the line was put up for sale or abandonment some other larger railroad (not NS or CSX) could quite possibly buy it to get in to the NY market and then look for trackage rights to reach the rest of their lines.

cjvrr wrote:Its kept in tact and under CSX / NS control, because it gives the appearance of competition in the tri-state area. Additionally, if the line was put up for sale or abandonment some other larger railroad (not NS or CSX) could quite possibly buy it to get in to the NY market and then look for trackage rights to reach the rest of their lines.

Meaning. I surmise, that A. NS and CSX are using a technicality to circumvent anti-trust laws, and B. CN and/or CP would jump at the chance to get access to the Southern Tier and access to northern NJ vua NYS&W.

I honestly think they are still around because NS is using them to get tax breaks along the unprofitable eastern half of the Southern Tier. If NS traffic ever picks up or the line becomes profitable, I think the NYSW will be off the Southern Tier and maybe part of shared assets permanantly.

hasn't the whole ns/csx deal been squashed before? Someone like a year ago went into great detail showing how NS/CSX do not own them, they only have people on the board. Was posted here and on the yahoo groups.

trainwayne1 wrote:The Erie threw the NYS&W to the sharks in bankruptcy in the late 30's, the L&NE died in 1961, then the L&HR in 1976. The NYS&W was dead then, right? Much stranger things have happened in RR history.

Really? I've read that the NYS&W grew so much it was actually able to split off from the Erie.

Anyway, as for the question at hand, depending what happens with NYS&W, especially if it goes under or something, maybe that'll be the moment NJ Transit needs as it can in the future buy the tracks and keep the line alive, rather than rot.

go under? business has been picking up and they are now back up to 3 round trips during the week and locals are always busy. Plus they are doing a lot of track upgrades on the NJ side.

Steve F45 wrote:go under? business has been picking up and they are now back up to 3 round trips during the week and locals are always busy. Plus they are doing a lot of track upgrades on the NJ side.

Are you sure they started running three times a week?? I saw the SU99 the last two Mondays and neither train was longer than 45 cars. Train is reported to be still running only twice a week.

Steve F45 wrote:go under? business has been picking up and they are now back up to 3 round trips during the week and locals are always busy. Plus they are doing a lot of track upgrades on the NJ side.

Basically, just a hypothetical situation. According to Morris County '08 Fiscal Report, its all to the NY State Line for NJ Transit service, which is utterly amazing.