Brooklyn to/from Jamaica (No Transfer)

I've noticed that most trains to/from Flatbush Av. run directly on the Far Rockaway branch, requiring no transfer at Jamaica. For curiosity, is there a scheduling reason for this?

Thanks...

Far Rockaway and Hempstead trains run primarily to Flatbush Avenue... with a few running to Penn during rush hours.

The other branches run primarily to Penn, with a few to Flatbush during peak times.

Three reasons:

Mechanics --A straight move through Hall and Jay from the Avenue -- that is the Atlantic Branch traverses Jay and Hall from Valley Stream to Flatbush.

Tradition -- Many old Rockaway Beach Branch trains operated "around the horn" from Flatbush Avenue to Woodhaven, Arverne, Far Rockaway, Valley and Back to Jamaica

Ridership -- The lower ridership of Far Rockaway Branch trains require fewer passengers going to New York to change at Jamaica.

Clem

Clemuel wrote:Three reasons:

Mechanics --A straight move through Hall and Jay from the Avenue -- that is the Atlantic Branch traverses Jay and Hall from Valley Stream to Flatbush.

Tradition -- Many old Rockaway Beach Branch trains operated "around the horn" from Flatbush Avenue to Woodhaven, Arverne, Far Rockaway, Valley and Back to Jamaica

Ridership -- The lower ridership of Far Rockaway Branch trains require fewer passengers going to New York to change at Jamaica.

Clem

I thought the Far Rockaway branch had good ridership. Anyways, I think Flatbush isn't really up to its capacity & could use some more trains to other branches than the Hempstead & Far Rockaway. My idea for Flatbush before the Nets staduim proposal was that 2 (maybe 3) tracks from Atlantic railyards would be converted to a diesel only short platfrom (similar to Long Island City) section of the current Flatbush Avenue station & all the Oyster Bay branch trains would originate from Flatbush except for a few who will end elsewhere, Port Jefferson, Greenport & Montauk trains may also use the station, but if the Nets staduim gets built I don't really know where I would put the platform. I also had an idea that every West Hempstead branch train would end at Flatbush with a exception of some peak trains.
EDIT: Forget about the diesel train platform.

4 Express wrote: I also had an idea that every West Hempstead branch train would end at Flatbush with a exception of some peak trains.

So did the LIRR, lol...all but 2 (one AM rush and PM rush) trains on the WH run to/from Flatbush Ave.

Lirr168 wrote:

4 Express wrote: I also had an idea that every West Hempstead branch train would end at Flatbush with a exception of some peak trains.

So did the LIRR, lol...all but 2 (one AM rush and PM rush) trains on the WH run to/from Flatbush Ave.

No, on weekends every train goes to Valley Stream *a guy in the backqround yells "oh!"*.

Can't be done. Diesel equipment can't fit the through the tunnels on the Atlantic Av line.

NIMBYkiller wrote:Can't be done. Diesel equipment can't fit the through the tunnels on the Atlantic Av line.

Oh, that's right! I knew I forgot about something.

Clemuel wrote:

Tradition -- Many old Rockaway Beach Branch trains operated "around the horn" from Flatbush Avenue to Woodhaven, Arverne, Far Rockaway, Valley and Back to Jamaica

To paraphrase Tevye from "Fiddler on the Roof" Why does the train run from Flatbush Avenue in that way? I'll tell you . . . . TRADITION!!" (no dancing, please)

AND . . . . the first electric service on the LIRR back in 1905 was from Flatbush Avenue to Rockaway Park!

4 Express wrote:

Lirr168 wrote:

4 Express wrote: I also had an idea that every West Hempstead branch train would end at Flatbush with a exception of some peak trains.

So did the LIRR, lol...all but 2 (one AM rush and PM rush) trains on the WH run to/from Flatbush Ave.

No, on weekends every train goes to Valley Stream *a guy in the backqround yells "oh!"*.

I am aware that the trains terminate at Valley on weekends, I have suffered the wait for the connection many a time. I thought we were speaking in terms of peak trains. On the weekends, there are numerous exceptions to the established norms for weekday, peak travel.

Lirr168 wrote:

4 Express wrote:

Lirr168 wrote:

4 Express wrote: I also had an idea that every West Hempstead branch train would end at Flatbush with a exception of some peak trains.

So did the LIRR, lol...all but 2 (one AM rush and PM rush) trains on the WH run to/from Flatbush Ave.

No, on weekends every train goes to Valley Stream *a guy in the backqround yells "oh!"*.

I am aware that the trains terminate at Valley on weekends, I have suffered the wait for the connection many a time. I thought we were speaking in terms of peak trains. On the weekends, there are numerous exceptions to the established norms for weekday, peak travel.

ok, no prob.

I think also (to expand on what Clem said) only 6 car trains can fit into Flatbush Ave. Terminal (Please correct me if I'm mistaken about that) So it makes sense to run those 6 car trains to the branches with the lower ridership where you don't need 8-10-12 car trains anyway.

In fact I read somewhere that Pennsy actually designed the Jamaica complex with this in mind and the straight moves that Clem mentioned.
If you look at the eastbound arrangement track 8 (from Penn Sta.) is oriented to the main-line. Track 7 (from Penn Sta.) to the Montauk (Babylon) branch. And Track 6 coming off Atlantic Ave. to the "fly-under" to the Atlantic Branch.

The same is true westbound if you look at how the tracks from the Main, Montauk, and Atlantic Branches come in to Station Tracks 1-2-3 which are roughly aligned to the 2 Penn Sta. tracks and the route to Atlantic Ave. The story also pointed out that it is not generally known or appreciated how smart the original designers of the Pennsy-Long Island RR were back in the early 20th Century when they planned and built all of this. When the usual sequence of arriving trains works as intended, none of the 2 or 3 trains will have to cross in front of another, as the 3 routes run parallel to each other.

Head-end View wrote:I think also (to expand on what Clem said) only 6 car trains can fit into Flatbush Ave. Terminal (Please correct me if I'm mistaken about that) So it makes sense to run those 6 car trains to the branches with the lower ridership where you don't need 8-10-12 car trains anyway.

In fact I read somewhere that Pennsy actually designed the Jamaica complex with this in mind and the straight moves that Clem mentioned.
If you look at the eastbound arrangement track 8 (from Penn Sta.) is oriented to the main-line. Track 7 (from Penn Sta.) to the Montauk (Babylon) branch. And Track 6 coming off Atlantic Ave. to the "fly-under" to the Atlantic Branch.

The same is true westbound if you look at how the tracks from the Main, Montauk, and Atlantic Branches come in to Station Tracks 1-2-3 which are roughly aligned to the 2 Penn Sta. tracks and the route to Atlantic Ave. The story also pointed out that it is not generally known or appreciated how smart the original designers of the Pennsy-Long Island RR were back in the early 20th Century when they planned and built all of this. When the usual sequence of arriving trains works as intended, none of the 2 or 3 trains will have to cross in front of another, as the 3 routes run parallel to each other.

It depends on what track, the capacity in each ranges from 4 cars to 12 cars.

Flatbush Avenue -- Brooklyn:

Track 1 & 2 - 10 MU
Track 3 & 4 - 8 MU
Track 5 & 6 - 6 MU

This was before any temporary changes for the present construction. Tracks 1 & 2 were extended in the early 80's when the EX yard was abandoned.

Before the M-1's came, Flatbush would only accommodate 54-foot (maybe 60 also) cars due to the curves in BROOK Interlocking. The "long" cars went to New York.

Some walls were milled away around 1970- to make room for the M-1's.

As a note, originally, the MTA designed a short (60 - foot) version of the M-1 car that was destined for Brooklyn and Downtown service via a connection with the subway at Brooklyn. This never materialized, and the place was modified for the M-1 long cars.

I'll leave it to someone else to describe the original Brooklyn connection between the present Track 6 and the subway.

To complicate things further, Brooklyn tracks were renumbered in the late 1970's.

Clem

From my observations, I thought it was this way:
Tracks 1 & 2, 10 cars
Tracks 3 & 4, 8 cars
Track 5, 6 cars
Track 6, 6 cars but mainly 4 car trains go there

Tracks 1 & 2 mainly use 8 cars for some reason & Track 6 also mainly uses 4 car trains.