Berkshire Flyer: Pittsfield - New York City Service via Albany

NaugyRR wrote: ↑Sat Jun 17, 2023 12:46 pm Lol oh yeah, Manhattan-ites are just clamoring for some Stateline Pizza and to use the ATM at Salisbury Bank

I was thinking more Kent, Barrington, and Stockbridge, places where weekenders congregate already that could offer true car-free or car-limited things to do and places to stay. Kent has good cafes, food, and places to shop. Barrington has a very bustling downtown with great shopping. The Red Lion Inn offers higher-end accommodation in Stockbridge.

As a commuter corridor, the B&A has potential. As a tourist destination for the wealthy of NYC, not so much.

Wait, you forgot one of Pittsfield's finest dinning establishments Teo's Hotdogs. I mean how could not want to stop in .
Anyway, I shall not print it here but there is slang used for this train and it because of the type of passenger that tends to ride. Its NOT your typical Manhattan businessman going to his cottage in the Berkshires. Its more somebody possibly transporting narcotics or such, down on their luck or a buff looking for a joy ride.

Gotta love us buffs!

Today's numbers: ALB/PIT 01
PIT/ALB 26

Yes I love buffs have friends that are buffs and am a buff myself. I have drug my wife into the desert for Tehachapi and Barstow, spent hours walking around Los Angeles Union Station to name a few. She has done this sorta willingly

Railjunkie wrote: ↑Sun Jun 18, 2023 8:50 pm Today's numbers: ALB/PIT 01
PIT/ALB 26

Yes I love buffs have friends that are buffs and am a buff myself. I have drug my wife into the desert for Tehachapi and Barstow, spent hours walking around Los Angeles Union Station to name a few. She has done this sorta willingly

Not great, but I'll add one note to this (and a prior post) for context.
The ALB/PIT number in this case (and the earlier post that I believe was ALB/PIT) is not nearly as bad as it sounds.

This is because in both cases, those are basically "turns" to get the train back to/from Albany for the real work.
When this first started last year, it was noted that on Fridays, after arriving at Pittsfield, the train was turned back to Albany as a non-revenue train, and similarly, on Sunday, the train to Pittsfield was a non-revenue run. Within a week or two, the trains became revenue trains.

Now I'm not sure if there's changes in union rules/costs for that, but if there's no additional cost , then basically today's 1 passenger offset the cost of what would be a non-revenue run a miniscule amount. Not much (I suspect it's $9) but it's not $0 either.

That said, I really do hope to find time this summer to take the Sunday train TO Pittsfield, with my bike so I can ride home. Would be a fun ride.

I would say that I think locally, Amtrak could do a better job of advertising these reverse moves.

Tickets are $10.00 for 1245 and 1234. 1234 has not hit the advertised in a few weeks, doesn't matter I don't think anyone rides this train. CSX has had other ideas. I get the idea its ten bucks more than I had. When you factor the costs of fuel, crew, station services (ALB) and CSX its like finding a dime

Yesterdays trains

ALB/PIT 2
PIT/ALB 48

Yeah you covered the cost of the engineer and assistant conductor ish. AMT 244 which the PIT/ALB service turns to sold out as normal for a Sunday afternoon.

I was going to reply that while your metric is a decent one, it's not the only one. Massachusetts apparently thinks it's worth paying for this. Though I'll admit even that is somewhat in doubt.
That said, this just came across my desk:

https://www.masstransitmag.com/rail/new ... pittsfield

So they're committed, at least so far, to spending the money.

Todays trains:
ALB/PIT 1
PIT/ALB 23

Failure. It will not make its goal of tickets sold in a two year period, The goal to keep the service up and running for a third season is somewhere around 2700. Not quite two years in, less than 1000 tickets sold. Ride it now because I don't think its going to be back next year.

Hey, they gave it a go, but I couldn't see this working for a number of reasons.

First, Amtrak. I don't see this service even being advertised, and when you check the "schedules" section of their wonderful web site, there's no mention of it. You really have to know what you're looking for to find it.

Second, the roundabout route. Yeah, its the most turnkey route at present, already seeing daily Amtrak service, ready to go. But you could drive there quicker. ... And get closer to where you want to be. Pittsfield is not really a Berkshires destination like Stockbridge, Great Barrington, etc are.

Such a service, and I've said it before, would be successful but its got to run via Danbury and up the Housatonic line. Then you can hit Kent, Canaan, Great Barrington, Lee, Lenox, and then Pittsfield. You're touching on all the major "quaint" towns in the Housatonic/Berkshire region by heading that way. As far as who would operate it, maybe Metro-North? They could market the heck out of it and it probably would be successful.

But there are quite a few stumbling blocks along the way...

MassDOT is upgrading their tracks on the Housatonic line. CT would like to, and may be doing some already (?welded rail?) But CT only owns from the state line down to around Brookfield. Then you have to pry the tracks away from the Housatonic RR from there to Danbury. This should be done anyway, as part of commuter rail extension north to New Milford.

So if you get Metro North service to New Milford, you're knocking on the Berkshire's door. Could they, theoretically, run a summer weekend style excursion service up to Canaan and Pittsield? They've run specials on the line before. But regular weekend service? Would you have to get Amtrak to run it instead? Now you're talking another railroad into the mix, trackage rights, any labor issues, etc. And if Amtrak's operating it, you're back to Issue #1.... the marketing and advertising.

Seasonal weekend service is run from Boston to the Cape and seems to be getting pretty good ridership. Its run by the MBTA which runs beyond their district down to Hyannis. Granted its all one state and pretty much all one agency (MassDOT). Would Metro-North be permitted to even run in Mass? I guess if they were contracted by CT and MA to run the service, paid, etc, then it would be a go. But that's a lot of puzzle pieces to get to fit properly.

It's not being advertised at all in the Albany area, so I'm not surprised by the ridership numbers.

On the other hand, there is also plenty of NYC money coming into the Albany area now post pandemic to places like Hudson and Saratoga, Saratoga being the fastest growing county in NYS outside of Manhattan. Pittsfield is in the Albany orbit, not Boston's and is the gateway to the Berkshires. People making jokes here are stuck in the past, things are changing and it's not 1995 any more or whatever year people are trying to compare.

shadyjay wrote: ↑Mon Jul 03, 2023 2:37 pm MassDOT is upgrading their tracks on the Housatonic line. CT would like to, and may be doing some already (?welded rail?) But CT only owns from the state line down to around Brookfield. Then you have to pry the tracks away from the Housatonic RR from there to Danbury. This should be done anyway, as part of commuter rail extension north to New Milford.

Mr. Hogan, I really did not to get to observe much of the Berkshire Line last month when I was out that way for SKS's Centenary as Bulls Bridge Road was under construction and was gravel (my Lady Lex only knows paved surfaces), so I entered and exited Campus by means of a back road.

So all I saw of the line was X-ing it on Bridge Street in New Milford. How that sorry excuse of a railroad can handle ANY train (I learned while at School there is "one a day") escapes me.

"Back in my day on The Hillside" (56-61), I thought the New Haven was in rough shape. Sure looked like the Class 4 BNSF by my house by comparison.

As has been noted here, the medical device manufacturer, Becton-Dickinson. has a large plant in Canaan, and is a reliable customer of HRR, where cars of plastic pellets, are interchanged with CSX at Pittsfield.

Why the Commonwealth chose to improve the HRR to benefit a Connecticut industrial facility is uncertain to me, but then that's Mass for you.

Dumb guy question: Does the BF use any track not utilized by the Lake Shore Ltd?

shadyjay wrote: ↑Mon Jul 03, 2023 2:37 pm <SNIP>
Second, the roundabout route. Yeah, its the most turnkey route at present, already seeing daily Amtrak service, ready to go. But you could drive there quicker. ... And get closer to where you want to be. Pittsfield is not really a Berkshires destination like Stockbridge, Great Barrington, etc are.

Such a service, and I've said it before, would be successful but its got to run via Danbury and up the Housatonic line. Then you can hit Kent, Canaan, Great Barrington, Lee, Lenox, and then Pittsfield. You're touching on all the major "quaint" towns in the Housatonic/Berkshire region by heading that way. As far as who would operate it, maybe Metro-North? They could market the heck out of it and it probably would be successful.
...

Not serving any of those destinations along the MASS DOT owned tracks between Canaan and Pittsfield is exactly the problem. Housy made noises several years ago about passenger service from Pittsfield via Danbury and Southeast to New York City, but nothing ever came of it. What they were looking for was upgraded trackage on someone else's dime.

They own the Maybrook proper, and the Berkshire from Danbury to New Milford (about 15 miles). They have surrendered there overhead rights to the NYS portion of the Maybrook (the Beacon Line), with right of first refusal should the need for service arise. MNRR has abandoned the Beacon, although Danbury - Southeast service continues to be studied.

Simply put, there's nothing in it for CT except for New Milford - Southeast. The upgrade cost is prohibitive, and they'd only gain service of (little) significance to Kent and Canaan.

I think the Berkshire Flyer is failing because as you note it doesn't serve any of the area between Pittsfield and Canaan. The train is running on MASS DOT'S dime; they should have thought of this.

Previously I noted that the "Commonwealth of Tax" upgraded the Pittsfield-Canaan portion of "Housy". I also noted that the main beneficiary of this largesse is an industry located in Connecticut. That astounds me to say the least.

However, if they were to extend The Flyer Southward to Canaan (all you need is FRA Class 3 - passenger 60mph - and you're speed competitive with US7), they would be able to serve the attractions like Tanglewood that are located in proximity to the "Housy". At least then, they'd be able to say "look what we did to benefit tourism in the region".

arthur d. wrote: ↑Tue Jul 04, 2023 5:16 am Dumb guy question: Does the BF use any track not utilized by the Lake Shore Ltd?

We have a saying on the railroad. There are no dumb questions. The Berkshire Flyer follows the exact route from Albany/Rennselaer to Pittsfield as the Lake Shore Limited. As an added bonus The Flyer normally catches more abuse from CSX than the LSL .