Baltimore Penn Station

electricron wrote:

Arlington wrote:Union is clearly one of those words that has mostly outworn its welcome, with two notable exceptions: I think Washington DC, as capital of the Union (Federal Gov't), is happily one place where it still works really well. In Chicago, Union also still kind of works as the only station fed from all compass points--contrasted with the many other terminals in town--though Chicago Central Station would work too.

There are many Union Stations all across America. The use of union wasn't to signify that the Union Pacific RR built and used it. It's use was to indicate many railroads used it and that it was more likely built by the local city for all the railroads to share.
Baltimore had several train stations and was served by several railroad companies. It's Penn Station was built and used by the Pennsylvania RR. That's what it's name signifies. The same holds true for New York's Penn Station. New York's Grand Central Station was built and used by NY Central RR, Central was not used to signify it was centrally located in the city.

That's my point (as a railfain I too know the real reasons they were Union (a joint project) and Central (the NYCRR))...for the teensy share of a metro area that are railnuts almost any old name will do--they'd hunt it down wherever it was and whatever the name.

But as station names, these names work best *today* only where they've taken on a second meaning that's accessible to the general public. Being "grand", being "central" standing for "The Union" (in DC) or for the UP (in LA)...these are extremely helpful in fixing an name on a user's mental map. And 99.9% of people at GCT can't tell you the technical distinction of being a Terminal but they will be aware that it is grand and central (in the same way Central Park is).

So in Baltimore, "Pennsylvania" basically gets you an evocation of a train that goes to Philadelphia--not where the station is located (between State Center, Mount Royal, Mount Vernon, and Station North) and not where you can go when you board (the whole of the Northeast)....and there's another good name:

Northeast Station (happens to kinda be where in town it is and definitely evokes where you can go from it).

northeast station isn't particularly useful either.at least penn station has current usage going for it

ThirdRail7 wrote:

markhb wrote: If they don't sell naming rights, it makes perfect sense to me to rename it Maryland Station.

What do we call the other 5 stations along the NEC in Maryland where Amtrak stops?

Four of the five major stations along the NEC are, or were named Penn ( or Pennsylvania) Station: New York ( NYP), Newark, Philadelphia ( also referred to as 30th Street Station -- and I see that AMTRAK only refers to it as 30th Street now) and Baltimore. In addition still existing stations in Pittsburgh and Harrisburg are still called Penn Station. There once were Pennsylvania Stations in Cleveland and Cincinnati, but they have been supplanted by subsequent stations. Since the PRR, and even the Penn Central, have been gone for more than 40 years, I guess one could make the argument that there now is no longer any reason to keep the Penn Station name, but I kind of like the historical reference After all the same could be said for Grand Central Terminal since the New York Central ( and the PC) have also been gone for that long, and Grand Central is now primarily a commuter terminal. But I like the names and think they all should be retained. We don't need to obliterate ALL of our history.( The "Penn Stations" named are along the entire NEC- not just in Maryland-- smaller intermediate PRR stations often were not ever named Penn Station--they just carried the name of the town where they were located-- and BWI and New Carrollton, which are stops for most of the NEC trains-- but not the Florida Trains-- were established by Amtrak and not the PRR or the PC)

I think it has less to do with the stations history and more the fact that the Pennsylvania railroad built the northeast corridor as we know it, including the major stations and in some cases small ones such as tullytown (Levittown-tullytown is the official name of it today). I think it's important that people remember the massive effort in money sweat and blood that gave us this national treasure & public resource.

Years later, they still plot the course for Penn Station, Baltimore.


Penn Station “good repair” study is funded
Amtrak seeks commercial development around the century-old station

Please allow a brief "fair use" quote:

http://www.baltimorebrew.com/2014/02/10 ... is-funded/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Grandiose Future Plans

The study is “a critical first step in determining how we can reactivate and maximize the value of the station’s upper floors,” said Amtrak spokesperson Kimberly D. Woods.

Amtrak is also in the process of developing a commercial plan for seven acres surrounding Penn Station. The passenger rail company hired Beatty Development Group, of Harbor Point fame, to develop a “vision plan” for the area.

Beatty last year proposed 1.5 million square feet of new residential and commercial space, at a cost of about $500 million, around the rail station, which is isolated from the Mt. Vernon neighborhood by the Jones Falls Expressway and from Station North by rail tracks.

Proposed new construction would include three mid-rise apartments on Lanvale Street and office buildings to be constructed over Amtrak’s air rights between St Paul and Calvert Streets and between Charles Street and Maryland Avenue.

BuddSilverliner269 wrote:Resurrecting an old thread. Gprimer, I couldve sworn I gave argument to you that the Cockeysville industrial was still being used and thats the name given to Amtrak and that the name wasnt changed or the line wasnt abandoned, but it looks like I didnt. I have recently done some digging and found out that NS doesnt provide freight service on the branch anymore except to the transload facility near the light rail shops. Is that still being used? The industrial tracks barely look used although I checked google satellite views and the yard does have cars but I dont know when those views were taken.

I believe that NS shifted their transload business somewhere else, but the old facility might be occasionally used for such purposes.

Yeah, all freight on the light rail ended when they began the double tracking project. The switches to Genstar have been removed and the track cut. There still is a short stub end track north of Warren Road, but it's long since abandoned. There was a guy who was fighting it, but I don't think he succeeded.

I don't ride the light rail anymore much, as I don't work downtown. But when I do, I have hardly ever seen activity in that facility. My guess would be NS moved everything over to their operations in East Baltimore or the locals got into an uproar about trucks coming and going.

Master Development Agreement signed:

Amtrak has executed a Master Development Agreement with Penn Station Partners to redevelop and expand historic Baltimore Penn Station on the Northeast Corridor. Amtrak plans to contribute up to $90 million toward expansion and modernization.

Planning and development due diligence have been under way since January 2018, following Amtrak’s announcement of Penn Station Partners as the selected Baltimore Penn Station Master Developer. The Baltimore-based developer partnership is led by Beatty Development Group and Cross Street Partners, along with a local and international team of planning, design, and construction firms. “Penn Station Partners was selected through a competitive procurement process based on their proposal, and commitment to partnering with Amtrak and the City of Baltimore to transform the area into a vibrant multi-modal hub featuring the historic station at its center,” Amtrak said.

Context from the Baltimore Sun, with attention to the station's surroundings:

https://www.baltimoresun.com/business/r ... story.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I don't see any plan viable until you do one thing: Find parking for all those MARC trains!!!

Why? Well, they take up tracks 2, 3, and F when they're not used. If the station now wants to use all of those tracks, they got to move those parked trains.

My candidate: PRR Orangeville Maintenance Facility in Bayview. Find out who's there, buy back the land, and shove as many tracks in there as you can. It'll fit at least four 8-car trains with engines. If we got smaller sets, build some smaller side tracks. But reuse what you got!

With those out of the way, you can turn track 2/3's platform into a high-level... but to make it usable, you got to clear out Gate A in it's current role as storage for the Java Moon Cafe.

That's where turning the Lanvale parking lot into an underground garage, next-gen train station concourse, and office space comes into play. One third becomes a six-tier garage.

The rest, first two stories is the new Amtrak Baltimore Penn Station, connecting to the existing station by the existing concourse (extending it out, of course). The first floor will have the ticket office, moved Java Moon, moved Dunkin' Donuts, moved Haber News, and security. Taxis and pickup occur on Lanvale past the garage's entrance/exit point. Corridors will lead to bus stops on St. Paul and Charles. Second floor will be Club Accela.

Floors three through six will be low-side office space; floors above six will also be office space or mixed residential.

With everyone moved out of the old station, it can now be turned into a proper (small) hotel and restaurant, with some rooms reserved for layovers by train crews.

STrRedWolf wrote: With everyone moved out of the old station, it can now be turned into a proper (small) hotel and restaurant, with some rooms reserved for layovers by train crews.

What crews layover in Baltimore?

Strange to me too but I've seen it happen with the Silver Star (northbound no less).

mmi16 wrote:

STrRedWolf wrote: With everyone moved out of the old station, it can now be turned into a proper (small) hotel and restaurant, with some rooms reserved for layovers by train crews.

What crews layover in Baltimore?

I would not be surprised if some MARC Penn Line crews layover in Baltimore.

https://www.thebaltimorebanner.com/comm ... OZK2T3HZM/

Check out new renderings of the Penn Station expansion project

Amtrak released new renderings of a renovated Penn Station on Thursday, showing modern office spaces on upper floors of the historic building and multiple views of a planned expansion.

Nine design images are now publicly available on Amtrak’s website. In January, three renderings of the expansion were released after the city’s Urban Design and Architecture Advisory panel reviewed the station’s design.

The images show multiple views of a 47,109-square-foot expansion, which will be built over the tracks and to the north of the historic station and then fully integrated with the existing structure. All station operations, including ticketing and baggage, will relocate to the new building, according to Beatty Development Group.
...
Plans call for adding restaurants and retail to the concourse level and modern office spaces on the upper levels of the historic station.
...

Jeff Smith wrote: ↑Fri Mar 31, 2023 7:47 am https://www.thebaltimorebanner.com/comm ... OZK2T3HZM/

Hmm...

Define the current waiting areas and access to Charles Street as foot traffic corridors.
Block off and rebuild the concourse interior for restaurants.
Move the bathrooms to where the baggage office is.
Move Dunkin' Donuts, Java Moon, and Haber to the new station head.
Build new elevators where Dunkin' to access all floors.
Plunk two restaurants in the below space.
Rent the rest as office space.