Arrow II Retirement

Found this photo of 1237 at Denville in 1989.

And this video of 1237 (see 0:54) at Newark, also in 1989.

Did SEPTA evaluate the entire fleet before purchasing 1236-1237? Were they interested in anything other than one pair for work train service?

What did NJT do to the Arrow II's that they didn't do to the IIIs? I mean if NJT couldn't maintain MU's in theory the IIIs would have been just as bad. Also if there was a problem with the AIIs the SIVs would have been just as bad as they were essentially the same design.

Jersey_Mike wrote:Can anyone explain why the Arrow II's were retired so early compared with the IIIs? I can't find much information about them on the web and the forum search refuses to lock onto the term. The II's were 1975 Budd products and as such they should have easily lasted a good 40 or 50 years instead of 20.

From the info I had, the Arrow II's were actually built by GE and delivered in 1973, just ahead of the first Silverliner IV's (1973-1976). The Arrow III's then immediately followed the Silverliner IV deliveries (1976-1978). They were run pretty much into the ground, and while NJT did have them overhauled in the mid-1980's, the heavy use took its toll on the cars.

Susquehaniewikiwokiwani wrote:Why was MARC using them and how many sets did they borrow? I never, ever remember hearing this are there any photos from there time on MARC? I do remember seeing the MARC AEM-7s on NJT in the '80s as a demo unit.

It wasn't MARC yet when they were running in Maryland. From the late 1970's after the Arrow III's arrived until 1984 or so, the Arrow II's were leased to Amtrak (for Keystone service) and Maryland DOT (for the Baltimore-Washington commuter service). The MARC name wasn't first adopted until either 1983 or 1984 and first displayed on the Sumitomo coaches delivered in 1985. It was while in Maryland DOT service that the only pair of Arrow II's to be scrapped before the rest of the fleet met their demise when a train of Arrow II's was rear-ended by the E60 leading an Amtrak train at Beltway-Lanham station. The Arrow II's were returned to NJT to be overhauled and put into service on the Morris and Essex lines in 1984 with the completion of the electrification project.

transit383 wrote:Did SEPTA evaluate the entire fleet before purchasing 1236-1237? Were they interested in anything other than one pair for work train service?

I answered that question for you in your post on the SEPTA forum

And here is video I got of Arrow II 602 (ex-1236, nee-536) on one of the SEPTA gel trains as it comes out of Wayne Junction. It is the second train in the video, appearing at the 1:45 mark. Unlike 601, it retains its roof hump. On the down side, it has gotten some unwanted attention on its sides....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WTM1EbbgFgQ

Silverliner II wrote:From the info I had, the Arrow IIs were actually built by GE and delivered in 1973, just ahead of the first Silverliner IV's (1973-1976). The Arrow IIIs then immediately followed the Silverliner IV deliveries (1977-1978). They were run pretty much into the ground, and while NJT did have them overhauled in the mid-1980's, the heavy use took its toll on the cars.

The Arrow IIs were actually ordered by the NJDOT in the early 1970s under the Transportation Bond Act of 1968 (which also paid for the U34CHs and Comet I coaches). It was intended for the combined Arrow I/Arrow II fleet of 105 cars to replace all MP54s by the mid 1970s on the PC's New York division (operating out of Penn Station). But the Arrow Is would soon be mothballed shortly after the new cars arrived.

Found this video of the SEPTA Wash Train with 602 (former NJT 1236) on the rear. Jump to 2:30. 602 is tagged pretty good and looks to have a replacement door on the end (note the oversize window).

Just found this pic of a big GG-1 pulling a pair of AIIs in the Baltimore Area.

http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPi ... id=2332704

Jtgshu wrote:

Rail Boy wrote:Strictly hearsay here, but I heard that eventually Amtrak banned the arrow ii's which is why they spent their final years confined to the Hoboken Division.

Also, I don't know how much of the lack of maintenance was attributed to NJT's knowing that they were going to be retired soon, but I do remember them being extreme junk. I specifically remember the 1234 having a piece of stainless steel covering everything around the anolog speedometer, where the Cab Signal System displays would have been.

I remember riding in them at the very end, and they were very depressing cars - very dark, and uncomfortable, and often very leaky. I do remember riding in 1234 and thinking thats a cool number

About the only remains of an Arrow 2 on the property that I can think of is a black and orange seat bottom that is crushed in the dirt along the back fence of the MMC next to the South Kearny yard........

I remember reading somewhere that the floor vibrated whenever the horn was sounded.

The Silverliner 4s still do that.... The horn is mounted under the floor in the vestibule.

Rod Stewart's Downtown Train video has him riding on 1263 at Hoboken.

Cool video! It has some Comet I Sliders in the background and a set of Arrow IIs that seems to just move up and down the platform. The NJ Transit logos are clearly taped over too.

Rod Stewart - Downtown Train

After singing about it for four minutes, he finally gets in the vestibule of 1263 around 4:04.

There's also U-Boats in that video and in the Movie City Hall they scraped off the NJT writing and kept the stripes. Not trying to get off track here.

City Hall had GP40PH-2B 4206 and high door Comet Is at Mountain View.

There is also a MNCR Comet I-A in the Downtown Train video if you notice closely.

R36 Combine Coach wrote:City Hall had GP40PH-2B 4206 and high door Comet Is at Mountain View.

There is also a MNCR Comet I-A in the Downtown Train video if you notice closely.

And what looks like U34 4151 if you REALLY look closely!

Looks like in the background, that these were the Arrows MDOT leased? Looks like pre NJT markings http://rrpicturearchives.net/showPictur ... id=2492722

Susquehaniewikiwokiwani wrote:Looks like in the background, that these were the Arrows MDOT leased? Looks like pre NJT markings http://rrpicturearchives.net/showPictur ... id=2492722

Correct. MDOT leased a few Arrow II's for the Baltimore-Washington commuter service. They kept their NJDOT markings for the duration of the lease and were never re-lettered. During that same period, other Arrow II's were leased by Amtrak for Philadelphia-Harrisburg service.