Amtrak Southwest Chief Discussion

dowlingm wrote:Apologies if this has been discussed previously, but in the (likely/unlikely) event that the "High Desert Corridor" were to be built between Victorville and Palmdale, would there be an advantage to Amtrak routing SWC over the Antelope Valley Line into LA-Union?

Interesting question, I haven't the slightest idea which route would be better. But you've made the fatal assumption that the privately funded "Las Vegas HSR train " would allow Amtrak on its "High Desert" tracks. Why would they, they aren't under any legal requirements to do so? Why would Amtrak pay them for access rights when they can continue to use the existing freight corridor almost for free? Additionally, there's the question on who should pay for the accident insurance, I guarantine Amtrak will not, they most assuredly will demand the private railroad to pick up that expense. Check out what happen when Amtrak switched over to the "Trinity Railway Express" tracks between Dallas and Ft. Worth.
http://www.star-telegram.com/news/local ... 41207.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

So there's many negatives to change the Chief's routing into L.A. with very few, if any, positives.

Presumably, Amtrak might be willing to pay them access rights if it expedited their journey, saved operating costs, and attracted ridership

That being said, I suspect that the Southwest Chief on high speed lines between Victorville and LA Union would be unacceptably slow and unacceptably heavy and unacceptably late

The population of Fullerton, Riverside and San Bernardino is double that of Palmdale and Lancaster. Why route a train away from the riders? Last trip I sat with a fellow from Riverside who takes the train to Albuquerque because it's more convenient than driving to LAX to catch a flight.

The "X"-train/Las Vegas HSR has been declared DEAD and buried,whatever funding that was "pledged" for that has
since moved on to other "projects". Unless it was an emergency "Detour",Amtrak would not be allowed on the "private" HSR ROW.
It would make more sense to get Ca and Nv to agree on PRIIA type funding for Amtrak to serve Las Vegas,then get UT join in
to to reach Salt Lake City.
And to get UP to play nice with Amtrak on that route!

Note: "X" -train was in a "partnership" with SFSR a few years back,left a bunch of unpaid bills/vendors back in Santa Fe,
when they"disappeared". SFSR still runs on an "as needed" basis for now,the "tourist" train ops are "mothballed"

I thought the "High Desert Corridor" was separate from the Vegas HSR proposal, which would have only run to Victorville?

https://www.metro.net/projects/high-desert-corridor/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; implies that it's a LACMTA project.

So if built, the High Desert Corridor would be no different than Metrolink in regards to Amtrak having access.

deathtopumpkins wrote:I thought the "High Desert Corridor" was separate from the Vegas HSR proposal, which would have only run to Victorville?

https://www.metro.net/projects/high-desert-corridor/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; implies that it's a LACMTA project.

That's the one I had in mind, rather than the HSR to Vegas.

deathtopumpkins wrote:I thought the "High Desert Corridor" was separate from the Vegas HSR proposal, which would have only run to Victorville?

https://www.metro.net/projects/high-desert-corridor/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; implies that it's a LACMTA project.

So if built, the High Desert Corridor would be no different than Metrolink in regards to Amtrak having access.

Built by whom? Do you really believe California DOT will be granting access to XpressWest to the High Desert Corridor for nothing? Who do you think will be paying the full amount for constructing the HSR components? I doubt it would be California DOT.
Additionally, Amtrak gets access to BNSF and UP tracks because they were providing intercity passenger rail service Amtrak assumed when it began. XpressWest didn't exist at that time, and Amtrak therefore can't claim automatic access to it. Again I ask, why pay someone else a lot of money for access when you already have access using a different route?

https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/49/24308" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Suggests Amtrak could ask for a hearing from the Surface Transportation Board and with its approval can get access to any railroad track in the USA, compensation for access to be determined. Again I suggest there's no way XpressWest is going to allow Amtrak to run slow trains over its HSR corridor. Golly if they did, Amtrak could use their corridor to provide slow speed train services to Las Vegas! I don't think the STB is going to allow that, not as long as XpressWest is providing passenger services along those tracks.

Metrolink(SCAX) along with the UP detour of the Chief via Mojave/Barstow was short time detour when Cajon Pass was closed.

Extending the Metrolink(SCAX) Valley Sub from CP Harold to Victorville/Apple Valley area seems to be the looong way around,
but could work as a Detour route if Cajon Pass has been shut again due to Fire/ Burn Scar Flooding.

Believe the still born Las Vegas private HSR was to connect with CAHSR at Victorville to allow access to LA

SWC leaving BNSF at Victorville could open the door for Metrolink to get a train pair between there and San Bernadino which otherwise BNSF would demand capacity improvements on Cajon Pass for. Sure, they couldn't force their way on using federal legislation, but as part of a swap (especially if Metrolink only operated it 5 days a week not 7 days) maybe something could be worked out.

The "HDC" corridor would do away with running on UP rails if a detour around Cajon Pass was neeeded.
San Berdoo and Fullerton are still stations that LD passengers use get on the SW Chief,a bus connection at
Victorville won't cut it!,still a long way around via Metrolink's Valley Sub into LAUS.
It could turn the Vincent/Action Station into an Amtrak stop during SWC detours(the 1 passing siding past
CP Harold heading east )

electricron wrote:Built by whom? Do you really believe California DOT will be granting access to XpressWest to the High Desert Corridor for nothing? Who do you think will be paying the full amount for constructing the HSR components? I doubt it would be California DOT.
Additionally, Amtrak gets access to BNSF and UP tracks because they were providing intercity passenger rail service Amtrak assumed when it began. XpressWest didn't exist at that time, and Amtrak therefore can't claim automatic access to it. Again I ask, why pay someone else a lot of money for access when you already have access using a different route?

No, I don't?

I never said a single word about LACMTA (who would likely be building and owning it rather than CalTrans) allowing XpressWest to use the HDC. I just pointed out that they're the ones proposing it, rather than XpressWest.

I also have zero opinion on which route Amtrak uses to access the LA basin. I was just chiming in to clarify the above question about the High Desert Corridor.

I found a live webcam at the Flagstaff AZ Amtrak station on Virtual Railfan. The first night I watched the wb Southwest Chief arrive there an hour late. Tonight, I'm not going to stay up to watch the train, as Amtrak's "Track Your Train" says the train is 2 hours late just over the NM/AZ line, and I'm sure that by the time it reaches Flag, it will be more than 2 hours off.
So, what's up? Is this a scheduling problem, where Amtrak should be updating its scheds to reflect "normal" delays, or something else?

CP

After handoff from NMRX at Isleta,the SW Chief runs into congestion on the Transconn at Dalies to Galllup NM.
Some of the congestion is from EB traffic waiting to enter Belen Yard for service,switching of cuts of cars,and Crew Change/fueling.
Some of the WB freights develop problems enroute,can be air hoses failing to power breaking down.
Congestion at Winslow yard is also possible.

Any delay west of Kansas City to La Junta Co is due to meets with EB traffic on single track and ongoing trackwork,and tends to hard to
makeup time on that segment
Between La Junta and Lamy NM,the normal meeting of #3 and # 4 is at Canyoncito in Glorieta Pass, if they are both late,the meet can happen at Las Vegas NM
in Track warrant territory and dealing with Hand throw switches
Raton and Glorieta Passes are still CTC ,between those section is TW controlled.

Could be anything from Amtrak related problems (locomotives, cars, passenger related problems) or perhaps BNSF related problems. The BNSF related problems range from congestion on the Trans-con, signal/CTC/PTC related problems, trains in emergency, drunks getting hit at Gallup (happens a LOT), weather issues (wind and flash flood warnings) and a host of other things. Being as A3 and A4 run over my former division (Southwest) I tend to keep an eye on it via Amtrak's Track a Train webs site. Generally the two trains do run on time. Both trains also have padding in their schedules both in the segments and at the end points. Chances are A3 will not be that far off arriving in LA later on today.

RRspatch (Amtrak/BNSF) now retired.

Well, perhaps sometimes the SW Chief can make up time between Flag and LA, but definitely not today. Checking Track your Train I find the SW #3 to be 3hr 18min late going into Barstow CA.
In another country, or perhaps another life/universe, Amtrak would have its own mainline between Chicago and LA.
I imagine that most of the people who ride the SW Chief do so for relatively short distances. I cannot imagine why anyone would want to take the train from Chicago to LA when he/she could fly for about the same cost in a few hours.
That said, I once took the train from NYC to SLC with a stopover at Glenwood Springs CO. I was on a month-long ski and sightseeing trip. I was also very young, and was excited about rail travel. Now I start getting antsy when I have to sit in the same seat for hours on end. Like when I traveled from NYC to Essex Junction VT last May. A 9 hour trip that I could have completed in under 2 had I flown. But I wasn't in a hurry, so it wasn't a real issue. Only the fatigue I felt on arrival after sitting for so long.

My brother took the SW Chief west a few years ago, and commented to me via SMS while traveling at about 10mph on what he said was "Amtrak only" trackage. I think he was referring to a section west of Flag; maybe to Williams Jct? I think he was going to GC. The new bus connection to Williams makes more sense to me.