Amtrak Service Suspended NYP-NHV

No, there will not be any connection between existing MNRR trackage and ESA.

If equipment can be exchanged between Arch St./SSYD and MNRR, what prevents it from being exchanged to or from GCT via ESA to MNRR?

The question I was responding to was looking for a way to circumvent a disruption similar to this derailment by CSX. Obviously if the railroad isn't blocked you can take ESA to CP217 and access Grand Central that way. It has been discussed many times elsewhere on this forum that Metro North and LIRR will not share any sort of trackage connection at Grand Central.

STrRedWolf wrote: ↑Wed Sep 09, 2020 6:14 pm Weird idea... but will there be access from the main line out of GCT to the LIRR East Side Access? That may allow for an... indirect way to get around such issues.

Still requires swapping in a third rail locomotive if one would fit. ESA tunnels were built to M1 clearances, even the LIRR's diesel trains won't fit. I doubt the clearances could even handle adding catenary.

8th Notch wrote: ↑Wed Sep 09, 2020 5:55 pm

Rockingham Racer wrote: ↑Wed Sep 09, 2020 6:55 am

BandA wrote: ↑Tue Sep 08, 2020 11:02 pm Why didn't Amtrak just re-route to NYG?

Probably because there's no contingency plan in place for that. That would be too forward-thinking and organized for the current Amtrak regime to consider.

You do realize that it’s just not a simple task to turn around and say “oh hey let’s send the trains to GCT.” Amtrak does not control GCT, the equipment cannot just be sent to GCT, and not every crew is qualified to GCT.

All of which goes to show that a plan is required. You're proving my point.

Rockingham Racer wrote: ↑Wed Sep 09, 2020 6:55 am

BandA wrote: ↑Tue Sep 08, 2020 11:02 pm Why didn't Amtrak just re-route to NYG?

Probably because there's no contingency plan in place for that. That would be too forward-thinking and organized for the current Amtrak regime to consider.

Why would you immediately jump to that instead of first considering that there might be many practical reasons why this wouldn't work?

Where there's a will there's a way. I'd like to see the "many practical reasons" why this wouldn't work. The easiest solution would be for MNRR to cross honor an Amtrak ticket at Stamford to get to GCT.

That's probably would be the easiest, if Metro-North conductors did recognize the ticket types Amtrak has (paper/printed/electronic). They probably have already been trained. The same goes for NJ Transit, SEPTA, and MARC -- doubly so on MARC because MARC's Penn Line is run by Amtrak and MTA Maryland's Fare Manual explicitly shows the Amtrak ticket types.

I would start the cross honoring at New Haven, since it was stopped there. (edit after the fact: New Haven has the capacity to do it too)

While this discussion of the "why didn't theys" is rather pointless considering the railroad, arising from the derailment and resulting catenary damage, was returned to service within twelve hours, it does raise the issue of a contingency plan in case of a "North River" or East River tunnel springing a leak, or worse.....(let's not go there on the eve of 9/11).

I think the contingency for a problem with Hell Gate would be annulment NYP-NHV until repaired. If the East River Tunnels, it would be annulment PHL-NYP-NHV of most trains, keeping Acela service only north of PHL and eventually adding some Regionals once they had enough cab cars to not need a Sunnyside trip. Amtrak isn’t the Pennsy in terms of facilities able to turn trains, and the NEC is now paralleled by more than two-lane macadamized motor trails.

Not that I like it. I think Amtrak could run WAS-NWK if North River Tunnels are shut down, at least Acela service and some Regionals, but probably wouldn’t.

Nah, I think they'd at least make Stamford. Or a temporary station near Sunnyside, if that's feasible. Conceivably, they could take an alternate route, either via Oak Point or Mott Haven to get over to the Hudson line. That wouldn't be pretty, would require a pilot and Diesel or DC capable engine, and an end change unless they rebuild the Spuyten Duyvil wye.

Naaaaaah.

Rockingham Racer wrote: ↑Thu Sep 10, 2020 8:42 am Where there's a will there's a way. I'd like to see the "many practical reasons" why this wouldn't work.

Some have already been discussed. The biggest reason is there is no catenary into GCT. That should kind of end the discussion about operating Amtrak NEC trains into GCT.

Also I doubt MetroNorth has spare platforms and track space to share during the evening rush; no Amtrak support / facilities at GCT; operating crew route qualifications (or MNRR pilot availability); and you'd still have to get the equipment back to NYP. The best "plan" is probably to suspend service until the problem is resolved.

The easiest solution would be for MNRR to cross honor an Amtrak ticket at Stamford to get to GCT.

Agreed, although I would say New Haven instead of Stamford, for reasons that have already been discussed. But the comment I was responding to was about having Amtrak operate into GCT.

A bit of creativity then, for if the NY tunnels were broken.

The big thing is NYP. If that's broken, then you have to move folks somewhere else. Going towards Boston, that's Grand Central. Going towards DC, you got to cross the river, and the only alternative now is PATH at 33rd and 6th going to Hoboken or transferring to Newark.

BOS to NYP, you can transfer to Metro North at New Haven, and the NEC will have a northern section it can run with the electrics.

WAS to NYP... is a bit more complicated.

• The easiest transfer point to Amtrak is Newark. Transferring at Hoboken I think will be hard, because I think the caternary is 60Hz, not 25Hz. Turning the train will require a diesel to move it down to the wye and back until they double-head the Regionals. Plus, every NJ Transit train will be redirected to Hoboken or terminated at Secacus Junction.
• To lighten the load, LDs would terminate at Washington or Philadelphia (Pennsylvanian and Keystones) and transfer to Regionals.

ACS-64s and Acelas can make it to HOB without issue, only the Arrows lack the voltage changer. The only wye
available would be West End, and that is an important junction between the M&E and Main/Bergen Lines.

Unless the MMC could be used to turn or service trainsets, but appears no loop or wye there.

The only other wyes I can think of is way south, Philly's ZOO interlocking. Franklin is possible but requires a diesel, and that's it. And looking over Google Maps, the only real place you could put one (if you somehow got the funds to do it on an emergency basis) is between Portal and Secaucus Junction.