Amtrak Pioneer Route

See my post on the AASHTO SCORT meeting. More LD equipment will be on the way shortly. Meanwhile Beech Grove is working on returning 81 cars to service, which does answer the question about how Amtrak operated so many more Superliner trains in the 1990s. Not only did they operate more train miles with Superliners, but for a time in the mid-1990s, after the Mercer cuts but before the elimination of the Pioneer and Desert Wind, Amtrak had a train of nine Superliners and a diner available for charter. I rode it a couple of times on excursion trains during that period.

The specifics of new "corridor" equipment are still under discussion between the states and Amtrak. Meanwhile, new LD double deck cars and new cars for Acela Express are due to be ordered shortly. The new Viewliners are on the way.

NellieBly wrote:See my post on the AASHTO SCORT meeting. More LD equipment will be on the way shortly. Meanwhile Beech Grove is working on returning 81 cars to service, which does answer the question about how Amtrak operated so many more Superliner trains in the 1990s. Not only did they operate more train miles with Superliners, but for a time in the mid-1990s, after the Mercer cuts but before the elimination of the Pioneer and Desert Wind, Amtrak had a train of nine Superliners and a diner available for charter. I rode it a couple of times on excursion trains during that period.

Wrecks have decreased the number Superliners available, Superliner equipment have also been moved east, and Budd Hi-Levels have been dropped from service since the early 1990s....The combination of all three leaves Amtrak short of Superliner equipment.....
By the way, Beech Grove is only repairing and returning to service 18 Superliner cars, not 80. There aren't 80 Superliner cars to be repaired. As of March 25, 2008, there were 66 Superliners out of service, against the total fleet of 479 originally built. Of that number 22 have been scrapped, leaving 44 sitting on the side tracks at Beech Grove. Repairing 18 of those 44 isn't repairing half of them.
Superliner cars being repaired under ARRA funds are:
1 Superliner Coach-Bag (31006)
3 Superliner I Diners (38017, 38026 and 38031)
1 Superliner II Diner (38049)
1 Superliner II Deluxe Sleeper (32501) (used on Auto Train only)
5 Superliner I Sleepers (32014, 32040, 32046, 32049 and 32065)
1 Superliner II Sleeper (32112)
2 Superliner II Trans Sleepers (39008 and 39023)
3 Superliner I Lounges (33003, 33011 and 33016)
1 Superliner II Lounge (33036)
Note: Amtrak is only repairing one Coach/Chair Superliner car.

Gilbert B Norman wrote:With "very broad strokes", Mike, the S-II equipment released with the discontinuance of the Desert Wind and Pioneer went to the City of New Orleans and Cardinal - as well as of course the Beech Grove rip tracks.

Again "very broad strokes".

Don't forget that the EB & CZ became daily trains, to make up for the Mercer cuts. There may also be more Eagle runs.

I don't know if Amtrak continued pairing trains, from EB/CONO, SWL/Capitol, etc (I may have pairings mixed up)
In any case the 30yr old Superliners may be beat up with parts shortages & severe wreck damage keeping the rest out of operation.

Let's face it: Amtrak may need $400 Mil to build enough (100+) new Superliners & other cars. 25 cars for the Pioneer. Another 25 for the Desert Wind. Another 25 to restore Florida service. Some new coach/baggage/dorm combo could relieve the shortage there. Now it makes more sense to rebuild Highliners till the Superliners & new California cars are ready.

My $4Bil figure may be the sum to get 3 needed projects off the Wish List & onto the rails.

GWoodle wrote:Let's face it: Amtrak may need $4bil to build enough (100+) new Superliners & other cars. 25 cars for the Pioneer. Another 25 for the Desert Wind. Another 25 to restore Florida service. Some new coach/baggage/dorm combo could relieve the shortage there. Now it makes more sense to rebuild Highliners till the Superliners & new California cars are ready.

Your math is a little off. If each new Superliner is around $4 million each, the cost for 100 would be $400 million, not $4 billion.

Equipment is a sideshow, to be blunt.

The issue on the table is capital dollars to rebuild the infrastructure on the line. UP has been aggressive in removing un-needed passenger facilities from their property (from the day when Armour Yellow meant passenger excellence). The key numbers I see are $370-$485 million to restore routine passenger capability to the various route options.

The second issue on the table is the subsidy. The range is $25 - $35.5M per annum to run this train, depending on final routing.

I can tell you what Amtrak really did on this: "Here Congress, catch the hot potato!"

The question of whether the Pioneer comes back depends entirely on two things:
- Who the Congressional patron is and...
- What vote does Pelosi and Reid really need that's worth half a billion in a DOT appropriation earmark.

There is now a Pioneer Restoration Organization.

(cough) bump (cough) housecleaning

John_Perkowski wrote: ↑Tue Sep 22, 2009 10:32 pm Equipment is a sideshow, to be blunt.

The issue on the table is capital dollars to rebuild the infrastructure on the line. UP has been aggressive in removing un-needed passenger facilities from their property (from the day when Armour Yellow meant passenger excellence). The key numbers I see are $370-$485 million to restore routine passenger capability to the various route options.

The second issue on the table is the subsidy. The range is $25 - $35.5M per annum to run this train, depending on final routing.

I can tell you what Amtrak really did on this: "Here Congress, catch the hot potato!"

The question of whether the Pioneer comes back depends entirely on two things:
- Who the Congressional patron is and...
- What vote does Pelosi and Reid really need that's worth half a billion in a DOT appropriation earmark.

Save for McConnell vice Reid, EVERYTHING Col. Perkowski noted ten years ago, is true, and maybe even truer in view of that Superliners are at the end of their lives.

US Sen. Frank Church (D-ID), whose big idea to have "his" train, is long gone from the Senate, and for that matter, this world.

Not to mention it's just a bad idea. I'm out in South Dakota this week. Everybody out here is driving a dual cab pickup with 400hp V8. If you tried to convince them to ride to Denver on a train they had to wait to catch at 5am, they'd laugh.

If Idaho wants a train, they'd be much better off running a day train Spokane Airport-Cour D'Alene-Sandpoint on the BNSF. There is a huge tourism draw there and most fly into the Spokane Airport. I have spent a bit of time at a friend's house near Sandpoint and downtown Cour D'Alene. It is really nice country and the tourist dollars are already flowing. It would be seriously good for Idaho's economy. No diners, no sleepers, etc... Push-pull 4 coaches, 3x/day in the peak season.

Wanna connect Idaho with anywhere? Sandpoint-Spokane if you want, but definitely SLC-Pocatello-Idaho Falls with connecting Yellowstone bus. Book it, done.

Just so everyone here knows, there's nothing to report here, I was searching "Pioneer" on another railroad news item (Pioneer Railcorp being acquired; see the brand spanking new Pioneer Family of Lines forum) and came across 7 different threads on the revival of Pioneer, including one I didn't consolidate on Pioneer/Desert Wind revival.

But we'll have some fun with it LOL.

I was wondering why this came out of the crypts.

We're deep into Fantasyland on the Auto Train thread. No reason why we can't go there on this one.

<EVIL LAUGH>

While this would be low on my list of trains to bring back, I'm all for anything that adds to the network.
But this is one that I think the states would have to pony up the money for it.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pioneer_( ... estoration
with an anticipated farebox recovery of only 31.7% (at best) that's pretty low.