Amtrak Grand Central Terminal Operations

shadyjay wrote: ... Were there Amtrak windows mixed in with the Metro North windows? I doubt that one window would've sold both Amtrak AND MN tickets, seeing as today, the two are separate.

There were ticket windows. Any coach ticket was valid on any coach. Parlor car tickets were valid on any coach too.

On A-Day, Amtrak only had Purchase Of Service Agreements with the roads; they did everything just as they did on A-Day Eve - only a lot fewer trains. However, one of the very first activities that Amtrak assumed was the sale of their own Amtrak issued tickets - and with such the revenue. How does that old "ditty" go; someone walks in to pay a bill then someone else yells "fire". What is that employee to do? Well, it is take the money first, then worry about the fire.

In all certainty, on A-Day, tickets for what were "Amtrak trains" were sold by Penn Central at the existing Metro North windows. In Chicago, Amtrak had their own ticket windows "up and running" as early as July 1971 (I was there to observe first hand). When ticket sales were assumed by Amtrak at GCT, they arranged to use the windows noted both by Mr. Amtrakowitz and myself.

A final note; somehow I doubt if when Amtrak/PC #235 left Penn Station at 1205A Saturday May 1, 1971 for Phila with its consist of a GG-1 and who lnows how many P-70's all liveried as PRR or PC; "not too many", if any passengers knew (or cared) that they were riding Amtrak's maiden run. Save a banner or two, and the horde of railfans (yes; I WAS out there), there was not too much visible to suggest Amtrak was in business. I highly doubt if there was any media coverage of that particular event.

Adirondacker wrote:Any coach ticket was valid on any coach.

Probably everyone agrees Amtrak quit accepting PC/Conrail/NJT one-way tickets from NY Penn to Trenton sometime before 1991-- maybe 1970s, maybe 1980s? Any reason to think they accepted Metro-North tickets out of GCT until 1991?

timz wrote:

Adirondacker wrote:Any coach ticket was valid on any coach.

Probably everyone agrees Amtrak quit accepting PC/Conrail/NJT one-way tickets from NY Penn to Trenton sometime before 1991-- maybe 1970s, maybe 1980s? Any reason to think they accepted Metro-North tickets out of GCT until 1991?

I don't know about 1991, my job moved to the suburbs in 1979. Or Metro North, I lived in NJ. Not only did they accept tickets, Amtrak trains were in the commuter schedules at least until the late 70s. Any coach ticket was good on any coach except the Metroliners which had a premium on them like all parlor cars trains had had. The premium was a small unlike Acela.

timz wrote:

Adirondacker wrote:Any coach ticket was valid on any coach.

Probably everyone agrees Amtrak quit accepting PC/Conrail/NJT one-way tickets from NY Penn to Trenton sometime before 1991-- maybe 1970s, maybe 1980s? Any reason to think they accepted Metro-North tickets out of GCT until 1991?

Timz: As an example the Amtrak and NJT fare between NYP and NWK was the same until sometime in the later 80s when
the Amtrak fare was increased to discourage local travel between those points...I remember that NYG-CRT-POU fares
were not sold and/or carried and passengers were told to use Hudson Line local service instead...

MACTRAXX

Yeah, according to the public timetables Amtrak never (?) carried passengers originating at Grand Central to Harmon or Poughkeepsie.

Amtrak fare NY to Trenton was higher than PC/Conrail/NJT fare after 1977 (?), so presumably after that Amtrak riders needed Amtrak tickets (except on the Amtraks that eventually allowed NJT weekly/monthly tickets).

(The 1977 Conrail/NJT timetable says Amtrak costs more to Trenton, but it doesn't say it's more to New Brunswick and Pr Jct. Later timetables just say Amtrak is higher.)

timz wrote:Yeah, according to the public timetables Amtrak never (?) carried passengers originating at Grand Central to Harmon or Poughkeepsie.

When I was riding Amtrak's Empire service in the 1971-1975, the Amtrak timetable noted Croton-Harmon and Poughkeepsie as "R" (receive only) stops northbound, and "D" (discharge only) stops southbound. However, those passengers who were willing to spend more money to ride Amtrak between Poughkeepsie and Grand Central Terminal (one seat ride in better cars with snack bar service), rather than a MTA/PC Hudson Line commuter train, found a way around that policy by buying a ticket between Rhinecliff and New York. Getting off the northbound train when it stopped at Poughkeepsie was easy, while boarding the southbound when it stopped at Poughkeepsie simply required showing your ticket to the Conductor and saying something like you knew you couldn't get to Rhinecliff in time to catch the train, so you decided to board here at Poughkeepsie instead. As long as your Amtrak ticket was between Rhinecliff and New York, I found that Amtrak conductors were okay to let you board their southbound train at Poughkeepsie.

I was curious when this changed, so I researched Amtrak's old timetables, and I found that the "D" and "R" restrictions were relaxed at Croton-Harmon and Poughkeepsie starting with the April 1985 national timetable. You could now ride Amtrak Empire Service New York to Croton-Harmon or Poughkeepsie if your Amtrak trip originated at Trenton or further south or at New Haven or further northeast; the reverse was true for southbound trips.

At some other point in the more recent past, it appears the Amtrak Empire Service "D" and "R" restrictions were completely relaxed at Croton-Harmon and Poughkeepsie. For example, these restrictions are not included in the April 1995 Northeast timetables.

I've never done it but I've been told several times by Amtrak train crew members on Empire Service trains that they DO sell tickets from Penn Station to Yonkers, Croton-Harmon and Poughkeepsie.

The last time I rode I was half-commuting and half-railfanning. It was a gorgeous Fall Saturday afternoon. I was working in Manhattan at 34th Street and Madison. I thought why not?

I left work a little early went to NYP and bought a one-way to Rhinecliff but when the conductor picked up my ticket I told him I was getting off at Poughkeepsie. He said to me, "You can buy a ticket to Poughkeepsie." I asked did he mean from Penn Station, and he said yes. I said I didn't think they would do that. He said yes they will.

A conductor collected Rhinecliff-Penn Station tickets from two friends of mine who boarded at Yonkers. Same thing. The conductor told him they could buy Yonkers-Penn Station tickets. They said they didn't think they could do that. The conductor said, well you can. (You can't buy them on the train.)

You can do it on-line anyway. NYP-Yonkers for as "little" as $16.00.

To Poughkeepsie for as little as $25.00


QUICK EDIT - Since I know someone will ask. Metro-North charges-

GCT- Yonkers is $7.00 off-peak.

GCT - Poughkeepsie is $13.75 off-peak

If there ever were receive/drop restrictions in Chicago Metra territory, they've been dropped, too. A few weeks back I rode 393 to Homewood for dinner, returning via Metra. I expected at least a funny look for riding the $9 train rather than the $5 train, but nobody said nothin'.

Tommy Meehan wrote:I've been told several times by Amtrak train crew members on Empire Service trains that they DO sell tickets from Penn Station to Yonkers, Croton-Harmon and Poughkeepsie.

Everyone's agreed nowadays Amtrak will carry you from NY to Yonkers? But far as anyone knows Amtrak didn't carry passengers originating at GCT to anywhere in Metro-North territory?

Tadman wrote:I expected at least a funny look for riding the $9 train rather than the $5 train, but nobody said nothin'.

Were you the only one getting off?

If you can stand an off-topic comment. Homewood is about 23.5 miles from Randolph Street. The fare is $5.25 on Metra. Yonkers is 14.5 miles from GCT. The Metro-North fare is $7.00 off-peak and $9.25 peak. Irvington is about 23 miles from GCT. The fare is $7.75 and $10.50.

For about a month a year or two ago I was working on a project for a company based out of Yonkers and every morning that month I would ride Montauk-NYP (changing in Jamaica, of course), get breakfast in Penn, then go NYP-Yonkers on one of the Empire Service trains. I'd do the same thing in reverse in the evening (YNY-NYP-JAM-MY). I didn't want to be bothered with schlepping all the way to Grand Central to get Metro-North (and I wasn't paying so the price difference wasn't a factor). But every day I'd ride NYP-YNY-NYP no problem.

lirr42 wrote:For about a month a year or two ago I was working on a project for a company based out of Yonkers and every morning that month I would ride Montauk-NYP (changing in Jamaica, of course), get breakfast in Penn, then go NYP-Yonkers on one of the Empire Service trains.

That' what I call a commute. Buy that man a beer!

Yeah that is a commute, I've had some long ones but never that long. I used to ride downtown on the L (3 miles) then out to Olympia Fields/211th (~35 miles) a few years back, but that was only during road construction season.

Tommy, I was indeed the only person getting off in Homewood. I wanted to ride up and over the Saint Charles Air Line, IE the connection from Union Station to the CNIC lakefront lines.

Tadman wrote:...I wanted to ride up and over the Saint Charles Air Line...

That's going to the top of my to-do list for the next time I get to Chicago.