Amtrak Downeaster Discussion Thread

[charlesriverbranch]

Monday night I took #689 from Boston to Dover to do some overnight work, returning yesterday on #682.

#689 was 45 minutes late leaving North Station, apparently because they decided to couple an additional locomotive and another "cabbage" unit onto the rear of the train. I assume this is how they ferry equipment that needs servicing to or from Boston, where it presumably goes via the Grand Junction to some service facility elsewhere in Amtrak's network.

Does anyone here know more about this?

[PT1101]

Equipment moves between the Downeaster service and Boston usually get tacked onto the tail end of 686 at Portland. Once in Boston, the "crosstown crew" cuts away, and heads for Southampton Street yard. Depending on the consist they are bringing back, they either run home "solo", or tack onto the tail end of 689. Either way, the equipment usually ends up in Portland. A late departure on 689 is a rare occurrence, and usually means a "perfect storm of delays" has unfolded. These can take the form of congestion at Southampton Street, equipment not being ready, paperwork or mechanical issues, delays in transit to and from Southampton Street etc. And if the equipment is going back as part of 689's consist, the required brake tests and mechanical connections add at least a few minutes. Trust me, no one involved with these moves is pleased when a scheduled train experiences a delayed departure.

[ryanch]

Admittedly I'm more or less a foreigner to this discussion, having only spent my college years in Boston. So help me out - I read the last page or two of this thread thinking the suggestion was to run a train to Southampton, the town in western Mass. The comment that you'd have to include such a move in any reckoning of the environmental costs & benefits added to that impression, since it seems like a long trip with a lot of fuel usage just to have a train in place for the next run.

But now people are talking about the "Southampton Street" yard. Is that what was meant all along? Running the train to some yard a few miles away from North Station?

If so, I don't see the environmental costs as all that significant, though sure, you have to think about it.

[Rockingham Racer]

I think I was the one who most recently mentioned Southampton [and left out Yard!] Sorry about that!

[Arborwayfan]

And I was the one who mentioned environmental costs. I meant the environmental (and financial) costs of deadheading a train from Portland to Boston every day at 3 am or whatever to be able to run it as an early-morning departure from Boston to Portland or Brunswick. I was not thinking about getting from North Station to South Station. Sorry for the confusion.

[gokeefe]

No need to deadhead ... It would almost certainly generate revenue. Question is "how much?".

The other question of course then becomes, "Is this the best use of the sixth roundtrip slot?". It may very well be.

[Arborwayfan]

True enough. But deadhead or carrying 7 passengers are almost the same thing in terms of net expenses per passenger mile or teaspoons of diesel per passenger mile. And yet it still might be the best use. If one out of 12 trains was almost empty, but the other eleven gained ten passengers apiece because the 12th train was there, it would be as though the 12th train carried 120 people; at some point, the overall system would make sense.

[TomNelligan]

But now people are talking about the "Southampton Street" yard. Is that what was meant all along? Running the train to some yard a few miles away from North Station?

Southampton Street is Amtrak's Boston coach yard and service facility, located in South Boston about a mile south of South Station. It was largely built on part of what was once the New Haven Railroad's vast Southie yard complex. As others have noted, Downeaster equipment deadheads between North Station and the Southampton Street yard via the ex-B&A Grand Junction branch as required.

[troffey]

I share your concern about the Dover Station roof. The City awarded the contract for the roof replacement to an out of town company with a completion date of December 1st, 2019. However, there was some kind of "bond" (performance?) issue with the contract. In addition, there is an issue with PAR requiring a flagger during the work. That would be required probably only during the work on the roof over the high level platform, as that work would likely see ladders used on the part of the platform that extends above PAR property. AFAIK, the roof repair is an entirely separate project from conversion of the waiting room into a deli.

The bond is an insurance policy-if things go belly up, the bond provides the funding to complete the job. It's a standard construction requirement to have one, but it's a "break glass in case of emergency" feature as opposed to the actual work.

If PAR is like some other agencies, they require a flagger for any work within a certain distance of the ROW.

[ryanch]

Thanks for filling me in. I might be the only one reading who didn't know. It all makes more sense now.

[troffey]

No it is not easy. The Downeaster crews are a separate zone from the rest of the NEC.

The cost of servicing in Boston is a major part of the problem along with a potential jurisdictional fight between labor. It's one thing for NNEPRA to contract services in Maine. Boston is another matter entirely.

It is very easy to oversimplify the problem. It is highly complex and involves difficult multi-state politics that NNEPRA wisely chooses to avoid.

Mr. O'Keefe, other than the Amtrak crews and the contracted cafe service, what services is NNEPRA responsible for? Does Amtrak handle servicing at the north end, or only when equipment makes its way to Southampton Street?

[gokeefe]

NNEPRA has contracted service provided at the Brunswick layover facility. They also handle marketing, capital project management, certain customer service functions and most of the back office for the service which involves coordination and administration of all funding streams.

They do a lot for such a small agency.

[troffey]

Thanks, I never thought about the back office elements and I forgot about their role in capital projects. I always assumed Amtrak handled the servicing and maintenance at both ends, but it sounds like NNEPRA contracts with someone else from what you're saying?

[gokeefe]

Yes, Drummac has the cleaning and maintenance contract. Also, NexDine has the "best in the system" cafe car.

Those are both contracts administered by NNEPRA. Amtrak does indeed perform some heavy maintenance (at their own shops) but I'm not sure how that's accounted for. Could just be included a part of the lease payments and they swap out equipment "like for like". The NPCUs are the only units with unique paint for the service.

[eustis22]

> "best in the system"

In quotes? Are you mocking the rating? if so, why so? I am not challenging your assessment just asking the reasons behind it.