Amtrak Auto Train Discussion

Jeff Smith wrote: ↑Sun Nov 06, 2022 8:01 am Okay, okay, no Miami lol! Mssr. Norman, I understand. I do think northward from Lorton does make sense though. It seems to me that most of the trips probably originate there, and the return trips from Sanford, thus, Lorton is not a destination, just an embarkation point. All that being said, the point about crews and servicing is duly noted.

Not many people ride the Auto Train from Florida to take a vacation in the Northeast, going from one tourist amusement park to another. There just are not that many tourist parks to see. Just about all the tourists spots in DC are located within walking distance of a hotel, about how far you would walk in a single amusement park in Florida. Almost the same in New York City near Times Square. And where you can go elsewhere in New York City, like the Statue of Liberty, you can not drive your car to it. You can reach just about everything there is to see in the Northeast using public transit, including DC. In fact, I would highly discourage driving your car in New York City because there are so few parking spaces to park it. You would be better served riding a Silver service train. I believe most of the people riding the Auto Train north are going home after a prolong vacation to Florida with their own family car..

electricron wrote: ↑Sun Nov 06, 2022 10:02 pm Not many people ride the Auto Train from Florida to take a vacation in the Northeast, going from one tourist amusement park to another. There just are not that many tourist parks to see. Just about all the tourists spots in DC are located within walking distance of a hotel, about how far you would walk in a single amusement park in Florida. Almost the same in New York City near Times Square. And where you can go elsewhere in New York City, like the Statue of Liberty, you can not drive your car to it. You can reach just about everything there is to see in the Northeast using public transit, including DC. In fact, I would highly discourage driving your car in New York City because there are so few parking spaces to park it. You would be better served riding a Silver service train. I believe most of the people riding the Auto Train north are going home after a prolong vacation to Florida with their own family car..

I just realized one place that you would need a car coming from Florida: A ski resort. And there's 12 of them around the MD/VA/PA area. However, it's very unlikely for someone to make that choice from Florida. I think the mindset just isn't there.

I kinda wonder if the AutoTrain runs empty in the winter.

STrRedWolf wrote: ↑Mon Nov 07, 2022 7:14 am I just realized one place that you would need a car coming from Florida: A ski resort. And there's 12 of them around the MD/VA/PA area. However, it's very unlikely for someone to make that choice from Florida. I think the mindset just isn't there.
I kinda wonder if the AutoTrain runs empty in the winter.

An interesting question I wish I could answer. Does Amtrak provide other than annual ridership data? I can find annual ridership data, but not quarterly or monthly data anywhere.

From the way that AutoTrain discounts in the Winter are usually only in the "off peak" or reverse direction, it seems Snowbird traffic is heavy and directional.

The northeast is NOT the destination, it is the embarkation point, ElectricRon. I thought I was clear on that. Making the embarkation point easier to access for those in the northeast could lead to a second AT frequency.

I also imagine the Auto Train as a way for people from the Mid-Atlantic and Northeast to get to Florida. I also wouldn't be surprised if a substantial fraction of the trips are long ones, weeks or months at a time, long enough that someone would save a lot of money by having their own car.

Tourists driving to see downtown sights in DC, Boston, or any big city in between are making an inconvenient choice. I would say, though, that the Northeast has a lot of mostly-need-car tourist destinations: Acadia, Maine coast generally, White Mountains, Green Mountains, Adirondacks, Cape Cod, etc etc. Those are big summer destinations, plus foliage season and ski season depending on which place. People go from all over the country in summer and fall, dunno about ski season. I don't say that many people from Florida do use the Auto Train to get there, only that it would be a reasonable thing to do.

Following up on Prof. Martens' immediate thought, I think that Pittsburgh (40.44° N, -79.99° E) is as far West as Auto Train can expect a passenger draw. Yes, I know I live in Chicago (42N, 88W) and have used it twenty four times over the years, as I have had, but no longer, friends in the Wash DC area (retired; reloed).

Likewise, draw a line through the 80th Meridian, and that too represents the limits of a potential AT market.

Now my thoughts on the chorus around here wanting to extend such to a point on the Corridor; really forget it. True, I know first-hand over the past fifty years, the build up around Lorton, where, when ATC inaugurated service, the biggest "tourist attraction" ("uh, not exactly" by choice) was the DC "correctional facility" located there. I-95 was a quite adequate four lanes and the 95-295-495 interchange (395 then not designated) "perfectly navigable even by Cadets".

But, even running a "Corridor AT" along the B&O, RDG, and CNJ to a New York area destination is fraught with issues. First, a "slot over" the Potomac River "Long Bridge", then clearances along the freight line through the District. Next there is Landover and the grade X-ing of the PRR (don't you think the present day Amtrak Train Dispatcher "just loves it" when Chessie has a train ready to X there?). So to address all these constraints (second Long Bridge span, DC clearances, a Landover flyover) are simply too much $$$$ when the alternatives for Mr. Train Guy et al is simply allow enough time to drive to Lorton - and most of the AT retiree passenger base has plenty of that!!!

What.------ Another 32 -38 aditional Superliner cars + 40 auto carriers plate "H " + smply 6 mor locos ( not really a problem other than coverting HEP to 1000 Kws, Maybr having to an using SC-44s. Who are you going to tob off SLs amd replace them with no present orders for Bi- levels ?.

Amtrak has now released the September '22 Monthly Performance Report.

All here, including myself, should be happy to note that Auto Train continues to "make book" and is now joined by Regionals. Even if I now question its value of saving 400 miles of driving and one night at a "three star' hotel, I think it is just great that people will step up and pay their astronomical fares. I'm not saying for one moment "there's a sucker born every minute". More power to WGC, to have Amtrak step up and resurrect a failed business enterprise.

Acela still remains on the wrong side, where it has been throughout the COVID era.

For me, as I've said, between CT and Tampa it exactly matches my I95 route and saves 850 miles of driving, 450 miles of which is heavily truck-trafficked 2 lanes. Those miles are also heavily littered with steel-belted radial remnants--I think it is North Carolina's largest crop--which always made me nervous in a car where the spare tire was considered by Volvo to be obsolete.

Allow me to note, Mr. Zulu; had I stayed in the Northeast after college graduation, it would be a no-brainer to use AT just like you.

But I went to college in the Midwest (weeping, waling, gnashing of teeth, from my Yalie Smithy family) and stayed after graduation from Univ. of Illinois, the drive save is 400 miles. One thing when the fare was $650, something else @ $1200.

Again let me reiterate; my most recent and likely final trip was 52(the day Kobe Bryant was killed). Everything worked, Dinner was "edible", and the Attendant, Debbie, was superb. But the "numbers" to save 400 miles and one night in a "three-star", just aren't there.

I was on the northbound Auto Train last Monday. Something happened to the Southbound train (engine difficulties, they said) and we were 6 hours late getting out of Sanford. They had a hell of a time trying to handle the crowds that showed up.

I give all the credit I can to the train crew doing the best they could under trying circumstances. However, they had n control over us having to wait for freight along the way which caused us to be 7 hours late getting into Lorton. The only good side of that is that it was around midnight when I was approaching NYC so the traffic wasn't so bad. I finally got to my home in NH at 3:45am.

I was told that they can only really "make up time" on the weekends. ....and this bad run was on a Monday/Tuesday. I hate to think of all the cascading problems.

Lorton has more space so they were better able to handle the crowds waiting for the train. They had lots of cars staged and ready to be loaded - and the station was full of people. Most of us getting off the train waited outside for our cars.

Not certain if same be the case today, but circa '96, 52 could turn for 53 at LOR in about five hours if need be. Know so first hand.

Of course, there are variables; staffing, number of vehicles to handle, et magna alia.

If such still holds today, they could eventually recover. During peak season, when they can command $1300 for an auto and Bedroom, I would think they'd like to avoid annulling a #52, deadheading the equipment North on arrival of 53, and flying the on board crew back to DCA.

Priority offloading is now up to $95 and seems to have significantly cut demand. Plenty of openings in high booking times, eg April Northbound.