ALP-45-DP Usage/Service Patterns

beanbag wrote:Saw #4531 for the first time on train #808 this morning... It was in E-mode to boot. Get your shots of the F40s now fellas, thats at least three of the damaged 45s back up and running. Anyone else catch any flood damaged units returned to service?

LOL figures...... !!

blockline4180 wrote:

beanbag wrote:Saw #4531 for the first time on train #808 this morning... It was in E-mode to boot. Get your shots of the F40s now fellas, thats at least three of the damaged 45s back up and running. Anyone else catch any flood damaged units returned to service?

LOL figures...... !!

Figured you were gonna love that. Ill keep my eyes out for more.

4502 had 416 this morning and 4511 was on 851. 4531 again had 808.

beanbag wrote:4502 had 416 this morning and 4511 was on 851. 4531 again had 808.

Close...the 4502 was supposed to be on 404, 409, 418 etc this morning. Unless something changed due to the issues on the Main/Bergen this morning.
Everything else, you have correct.

srock1028 wrote:

beanbag wrote:4502 had 416 this morning and 4511 was on 851. 4531 again had 808.

Close...the 4502 was supposed to be on 404, 409, 418 etc this morning. Unless something changed due to the issues on the Main/Bergen this morning.
Everything else, you have correct.

Srock.. I have to disagree with you on this one, I mean it in the nicest way possible, but I was actually on board #416 this morning, and I checked which locomotive was on the train when it hit Broad Street (my stop), it was 4502. I watched it do its mode change as well. I actually watchedboth 4502 and 4531 do their changes and It was interesting to note the amount of white smoke and soot the 4531 blew out its stacks that the 4502 didnt.. I cant imagine its still clearing soot out the pipes after having sat around all year.. Or is it? Also, are there any more 45s returning to service that I should look for srock?

beanbag wrote:

srock1028 wrote:

beanbag wrote:4502 had 416 this morning and 4511 was on 851. 4531 again had 808.

Close...the 4502 was supposed to be on 404, 409, 418 etc this morning. Unless something changed due to the issues on the Main/Bergen this morning.
Everything else, you have correct.

Srock.. I have to disagree with you on this one, I mean it in the nicest way possible, but I was actually on board #416 this morning, and I checked which locomotive was on the train when it hit Broad Street (my stop), it was 4502. I watched it do its mode change as well. I actually watchedboth 4502 and 4531 do their changes and It was interesting to note the amount of white smoke and soot the 4531 blew out its stacks that the 4502 didnt.. I cant imagine its still clearing soot out the pipes after having sat around all year.. Or is it? Also, are there any more 45s returning to service that I should look for srock?

Stuff must have changed after the morning lineups went out, no worries. All I know is what ALP-45's are in service at the start of the day.

srock1028 wrote:

beanbag wrote:

srock1028 wrote:

beanbag wrote:4502 had 416 this morning and 4511 was on 851. 4531 again had 808.

Close...the 4502 was supposed to be on 404, 409, 418 etc this morning. Unless something changed due to the issues on the Main/Bergen this morning.
Everything else, you have correct.

Srock.. I have to disagree with you on this one, I mean it in the nicest way possible, but I was actually on board #416 this morning, and I checked which locomotive was on the train when it hit Broad Street (my stop), it was 4502. I watched it do its mode change as well. I actually watchedboth 4502 and 4531 do their changes and It was interesting to note the amount of white smoke and soot the 4531 blew out its stacks that the 4502 didnt.. I cant imagine its still clearing soot out the pipes after having sat around all year.. Or is it? Also, are there any more 45s returning to service that I should look for srock?

Stuff must have changed after the morning lineups went out, no worries. All I know is what ALP-45's are in service at the start of the day.

Oh ok! Cool, Well thank you, if you happen to hear of another Sandy damaged 45 thats going out for the day let us know, so we know the number available for service.

These locos were a complete waste of money.

Sorry, but the test should have been this

- could the ALP45 locos carry a 10 car multilevel express train from Bay Head to NYP on a one seat ride. Some mention the ALP45 can't carry a 10 car multilevel trainset.
- others say the ENTIRE Coast Line schedule would have to be re-done in order to accommodate the slots. The Coast Line schedule could use an overhaul in its scheduling.

Amtrak is a minority operator of trains during rush hour. They may call the shots, but NJT far outweigh the amount of NJT trains coming into NYP.

If the ALP45's couldn't combine a "Bay Head" shuttle with a current scheduled electric train out of Long Branch to NYP, thereby offering a one seat ride while having 10 multilevels in the consist, then the ALP 45's missed the mark MAJORLY.

NJT needed to strengthen ridership south of Long Branch - here was their chance with the ALP45's. Here was there chance to schedule locals and express trains on the Coast Line that make more sense. They could have also moved operations BACK to Bay Head and almost close Long Branch as a terminal for the electrics.

The ALP45's don't seem to be purposed for this. Yet I have seen AMT (out of Montreal) have an ALP45 lead a 10 car multilevel trainset. Perhaps operations are different up there. I don't know.

But the ALP45's could have really done something to the North Jersey Coast Line trains. So far they haven't. To get better service south of Long Branch (and a one-seat ride once again), I guess we have to wait until the catenary is extended to Bay Head. A lot of tax payer money was spent on the ALP45 and their return on investment doesn't seem to be there.

NJT... Rightfully so, is more interested in fixing up the damaged ones at this point. Once theyre fixed, they will likely see what can be done with them.

beanbag wrote:NJT... Rightfully so, is more interested in fixing up the damaged ones at this point. Once theyre fixed, they will likely see what can be done with them.

I doubt that will happen once all are fixed.... You will see a few on the Westfield to NY off peak trains next year, but as far as looking at new and expended service from NY and/or Hoboken to Bay Head services, don;t hold your breath!! Don't hold your breath on expanded Port Morris service either!!!

For the most part I would expect status quo for these gas guzzlers...

jp1822 wrote: - could the ALP45 locos carry a 10 car multilevel express train from Bay Head to NYP on a one seat ride. Some mention the ALP45 can't carry a 10 car multilevel trainset.
- others say the ENTIRE Coast Line schedule would have to be re-done in order to accommodate the slots. The Coast Line schedule could use an overhaul in its scheduling.

-They can pull 10, but it is extremely slow.
-I pretty sure that would have to happen.

jp1822 wrote: Amtrak is a minority operator of trains during rush hour. They may call the shots, but NJT far outweigh the amount of NJT trains coming into NYP.

NJT has a slot agreement with Amtrak in the AM and PM peaks where NJT is only allowed a certian amount of trains into an already crowded NY Penn Station.

I have a few questions for you mr. jp1822, where do you suppose these engines get serviced and fueled if they run from Bay Head to New York? Where would the ML sets get their daily inspections and under carriage inspections if they run from Bay Head to New York?

blockline4180 wrote:

beanbag wrote:NJT... Rightfully so, is more interested in fixing up the damaged ones at this point. Once theyre fixed, they will likely see what can be done with them.

I doubt that will happen once all are fixed.... You will see a few on the Westfield to NY off peak trains next year, but as far as looking at new and expended service from NY and/or Hoboken to Bay Head services, don;t hold your breath!! Don't hold your breath on expanded Port Morris service either!!!

For the most part I would expect status quo for these gas guzzlers...

Well thats not our fault... Nor the 45s or NJTs. Christie sucked the carpet out from under ARC right as the 45s were bought and paid for.. Leaving NJT with 35 dual modes out of a job. At least NJT is trying to find uses for them rather than just being like "oops! Were sorry we wasted your money"

Or would the biggest waste of money have been ARC itself?

Maybe a better idea would have been to order these for manufacture, testing and delivery around the time that ARC opened to avoid problems like this? It is possible that NJT knew about all the flaws of ARC but ordered these right away as an incentive to keep the project going.

It is the design of these things that sucks. Too many limitations leave too much of the lines out of luck if they are hoping for one seat rides. Not to mention the amount of fuel consumption. If they really wanted to save taxpayer money, maybe put all the ALP45's on the track at Garwood and let the Geeps and F40's roam over the non-electrified portions of the state.

SecaucusJunction wrote:Or would the biggest waste of money have been ARC itself?

Maybe a better idea would have been to order these for manufacture, testing and delivery around the time that ARC opened to avoid problems like this? It is possible that NJT knew about all the flaws of ARC but ordered these right away as an incentive to keep the project going.

It is the design of these things that sucks. Too many limitations leave too much of the lines out of luck if they are hoping for one seat rides. Not to mention the amount of fuel consumption. If they really wanted to save taxpayer money, maybe put all the ALP45's on the track at Garwood and let the Geeps and F40's roam over the non-electrified portions of the state.

I dont think anyone counted on Christie pulling it like that.. it was six years in, its one thing if it was like a year or so in the ideas phase, but it was more than that. No one saw it coming. That being said, we have them, we might as well use em. Some of those F40s (4120 in particular is one that comes to mind) are starting to sound a little rough, parking the 45s would be worse. I think they were counting on the 45s to be used primarily in territory where they could run in e-mode most of the time, quickly go off grid into non electrifiec territory, then come back. instead theyve been thrown headfirst into the Hoboken division line of work, with alot of diesel engine use, and thatts where theyre taking the hit on fuel economy, that pantograph arcing issue in Hoboken preventing them from being in E mode in the terminal was just salt in the wound. They at least have been performing solidly, not breaking all the time and what have you, so while theyre not necessary, NJT is able to at least get some moneys worth out of em. take that statement with a grain of salt though, watch one go on a 3 CV set in E-mode and you will see just how much overkill they are for their present role.. theyll throw you back in your seat for a second if youre not ready with the initial acceleration theyre that quick off the line, easily as fast as the Arrows.

srock1028 wrote:

jp1822 wrote: I have a few questions for you mr. jp1822, where do you suppose these engines get serviced and fueled if they run from Bay Head to New York? Where would the ML sets get their daily inspections and under carriage inspections if they run from Bay Head to New York?

And there lies my point (and has been since these ALP45's were conceived):

If NJT could not support the engines getting serviced and fueled to run from Bay Head to New York, along with carrying Multilevel cars - shame on NJT for EVER ordering them with taxpayer money.These were expensive locomotives to not bring about a major change. And for the record, I consider the ordering of the ALP45's and ARC two seperate issues.