ALP-45-DP Usage/Service Patterns

I believe Jimzim mentioned that it was because there are some trains that go up the Bergen/Main lines and they don't want to do the mode change in Hoboken terminal, as there probably isnt' enough clearance inbetween the pan and catenary for when the pan is dropped, it can arc. If it was going to stay on an MSU shuttle service, it probably could stay in electric mode, but that would require an exception to the rule and make things more complicated than they already are, so a blanket rule was made it looks like.

Jtgshu wrote:I believe Jimzim mentioned that it was because there are some trains that go up the Bergen/Main lines and they don't want to do the mode change in Hoboken terminal, as there probably isnt' enough clearance inbetween the pan and catenary for when the pan is dropped, it can arc. If it was going to stay on an MSU shuttle service, it probably could stay in electric mode, but that would require an exception to the rule and make things more complicated than they already are, so a blanket rule was made it looks like.

And if they run to Gladstone (which a few still do, for the time being) they still in electric mode as well.

Is there no way of easily cutting the circuit to the wire over the track to avoid arcing issues?

I highly doubt it. And that type of electric equipment is NOT designed for day in, day out operation. Heck, circuit breakers that size actually have usage counters on them to count the number of times they've operated.

Also, induced currents can be a headache - "if it's not grounded, it's not dead", as they say in the industry.

I'm curious though - is the lock-down height of the pan on the '45 higher than other NJT equipment? Are there any restrictions on pan usage in Hoboken for any equipment?

Nasadowsk wrote:I highly doubt it. And that type of electric equipment is NOT designed for day in, day out operation. Heck, circuit breakers that size actually have usage counters on them to count the number of times they've operated.

Also, induced currents can be a headache - "if it's not grounded, it's not dead", as they say in the industry.

I'm curious though - is the lock-down height of the pan on the '45 higher than other NJT equipment? Are there any restrictions on pan usage in Hoboken for any equipment?

Hmmm, interesting.

Yes, that can be an issue, a deadly one.

I think one real issue is that it only has one so they don't wanna risk arcing damaging the shoe, which could leave them in a serious pickle.

I passed trough Hoboken on a train just now and behind the 4140 I happened to notice three 45s hooked to each other, two back to back and the one in the middle coupled elephant style to the one in front of it. I couldnt quite catch their numbers, can anyone fill me in?

What about electric locomotives that operate and turn in Hoboken? Per special instruction, electric locomotives must operate with the trailing pantograph up. Additionally, the SI on "Changing Pantographs" states that the engineer mush change pans when the direction of the locomotive will change (except when it will be moved into a yard) and "This applies to all locations including yards." No mention of an exception for the Hoboken trainshed

If the ALP-46's can switch pans in Hoboken, why is there that rule for the 45's? Is there a difference between the lowered pan heights of the 45's and 46's?

Do they raise one pantograph, then lower the other? In that case there'd be no arc, which is not an option when moving an ALP-45-DP's single pantograph, even if it's the same height as other straight electric locomotives.

ns3010 wrote:What about electric locomotives that operate and turn in Hoboken? Per special instruction, electric locomotives must operate with the trailing pantograph up. Additionally, the SI on "Changing Pantographs" states that the engineer mush change pans when the direction of the locomotive will change (except when it will be moved into a yard) and "This applies to all locations including yards." No mention of an exception for the Hoboken trainshed

If the ALP-46's can switch pans in Hoboken, why is there that rule for the 45's? Is there a difference between the lowered pan heights of the 45's and 46's?

What i do know is the 45s pan is in a recessed section of the roof vs. on top, the risk for arcing is likely much higher. A theory I have is that because the ALP45 runs its diesel engines in the mode change to electric until its powered up in E-mode to maintain the HEP.. I would bet they dont want to change over to E-mode with the pan height being so low on some tracks because they dont want the pan to arc resulting in the 45 setting off its own fuel vapors.

trollyFoamer wrote:Do they raise one pantograph, then lower the other? In that case there'd be no arc, which is not an option when moving an ALP-45-DP's single pantograph, even if it's the same height as other straight electric locomotives.

Yes, they do. I hadn't considered that as the reason for doing so. Thanks for pointing that out!



Somewhat related question, why are the ALP-45's restricted from tracks 9-12 and 14 in Hoboken?

height of ALP-46 is Height over pantographs 4 489 mm / 173.73”

http://www.br146.de/revisionen_daten/AL ... t08_en.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Height of ALP45DP is Height over pantograph 14’ 41⁄8” / 4 400 mm

http://www.br146.de/revisionen_daten/Du ... t08_en.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Making the ALP46/46a about 3 inches higher than the Dual power.

Anyone have those road numbers from my earlier inquiry?

beanbag wrote:

ns3010 wrote:What about electric locomotives that operate and turn in Hoboken? Per special instruction, electric locomotives must operate with the trailing pantograph up. Additionally, the SI on "Changing Pantographs" states that the engineer mush change pans when the direction of the locomotive will change (except when it will be moved into a yard) and "This applies to all locations including yards." No mention of an exception for the Hoboken trainshed

If the ALP-46's can switch pans in Hoboken, why is there that rule for the 45's? Is there a difference between the lowered pan heights of the 45's and 46's?

What i do know is the 45s pan is in a recessed section of the roof vs. on top, the risk for arcing is likely much higher. A theory I have is that because the ALP45 runs its diesel engines in the mode change to electric until its powered up in E-mode to maintain the HEP.. I would bet they dont want to change over to E-mode with the pan height being so low on some tracks because they dont want the pan to arc resulting in the 45 setting off its own fuel vapors.

No.

Yea, the 46's panto sits up on top, the highest point, while the 45 the panto lowers below the top of the roof. I dunno if arcing is an issue!

25Hz wrote:Yea, the 46's panto sits up on top, the highest point, while the 45 the panto lowers below the top of the roof. I dunno if arcing is an issue!

The problem isnt' so much the roof line or where the pan sits when its lowered, but rather how close the pan is to the wire when its lowered. There isn't enough clearance to guarantee that you won't arc from the wire to the pan when its in its lowered position, thats why they don't want it dropped in Hoboken Terminal or any other low catenary clearance locations