Acela II (Alstom Avelia Liberty): Design, Production, Delivery, Acceptance

Safe to say that if they were tested for 160 in 2012 and it hasn't happened yet, it ain't gonna happen. But 150 under the new constant tension catenary stretch through Princeton Jct would seem trivial, given that they already operate at 150 elsewhere. In any case, it makes zero practical difference, but hopefully the next gen models will be authorized for 160 just for the fun factor!

scratchyX1 wrote: ↑Wed Dec 30, 2020 12:24 pm

Fan Railer wrote: ↑Tue Dec 29, 2020 11:24 pm The original Acelas were tested into the 170s between HAM and COUNTY. So yes, they are capable of sustained 160 mph operation in NJ.

The impression i was under is that , while they are capable of 160, the extra weight of the accela 1s would cause both tracks and trucks to take a beating.

You are not wrong.

This article appearing in The Times yesterday, is certainly foreboding to any commercial transportation operator (and lodging/hospitality to boot), there is one passage that potentially relates adversely to the Acela 21:

Fair Use:

Some experts argue that corporate travel may never fully recover, with many in-person meetings permanently replaced by video conferences and phone calls. Travel for sales meetings, conventions and trade shows is least likely to be permanently affected, IdeaWorks, an industry consulting firm, said in a December report. But shorter trips to meet with co-workers for a few hours — from New York to Washington, say — could be hit harder, it concluded..

NY-Wash isn't that the market that Acela recaptured from the airlines becoming the dominant carrier and contributed greatly to the only profitable chunk of Amtrak?

Regretably. I concur with those experts, the post-COVID business world will be forever changed. Commuter rail will sell more Ten Rides than Monthlys as employers will only summon White Collar employees in for, say, a bi-weekly staff meeting. Otherwise, WFH will be the "new norm".

I'm sure starting right with The Times, with Washington Bureau reporters being summoned to NY and hoping on the Acela for three uninterrupted work hours it offers, to meet with Executive Editors regarding a story, have now found that Zoom works well enough.

How about the Manhattan restaurants catering to the same crowd, or the $450/ni hotels? How about the office space that will be vacated as soon as leases are up?

The "workscape" will be forever changed.

Gilbert B Norman wrote: ↑Sun Feb 21, 2021 7:24 am Regretably. I concur with those experts, the post-COVID business world will be forever changed. Commuter rail will sell more Ten Rides than Monthlys as employers will only summon White Collar employees in for, say, a bi-weekly staff meeting. Otherwise, WFH will be the "new norm".

I'm sure starting right with The Times, with Washington Bureau reporters being summoned to NY and hoping on the Acela for three uninterrupted work hours it offers, to meet with Executive Editors regarding a story, have now found that Zoom works well enough.

How about the Manhattan restaurants catering to the same crowd, or the $450/ni hotels? How about the office space that will be vacated as soon as leases are up?

The "workscape" will be forever changed.

I hate to say, this will happen everywhere. I'll be returning myself but out of the entire dev team for my company, only me and another person will return to the office full-time. The boss and the team lead elected to be perma-remote, and two staffers are also remote. (NTS: expense a couple of webcams for the office, me and coworker) Some of the staff will still need to come into their offices -- especially when quick response to servers on fire (literally) is needed. I think we'll get to 65-75% of office usage in a year as the office dynamics shake out.

Near term, this means any "business" travel is just stuff on top of "Lobbying our Congress critter in DC" that had a value-add analysis done and it was too beneficial to ignore, or that technology can't overcome fast enough. Air and long-distance train travel (in this context over two hour travel time) will suffer for a while.

Commuter trains will suffer too, but mitigated if there's a commodities or stock exchange. Add in the above lobbying, and I think the following train lines will be impacted the least:

• MARC & VRE (DC Area) -- I won't be surprised if these go back to full pre-pandemic schedule
• METRA (Chicago, numerous exchanges) -- Trimmed schedule
• NJ Transit/Metro-North/LIRR (NY City) -- Trimmed schedule

Some of Amtrak's corridor service may be spared if they run into these areas, but I also think their service will be pared down. I can't see running more than hourly Amtrak NEC Regional service, and I can't see how the Acela will fit into that (near term). I mean, you're only saving 30 minutes on a 3 hour ride that's basically business and first class accommodations.

Concur. I used to average about 1 round trip per month from Newark, NJ to Washington, DC by Metroliner and then Acela for electric and gas conferences, committee meetings, and similar. Some 10 years ago these, and long distance business trips by Amtrak when practicable (using vacation days for extra time versus air) or by air, mostly were replaced by on-line conferences.

I disagree that WFH will be the "new normal." Certainly more jobs will be permanently or mostly WFH, but there will always be white collar
a.) workers who prefer going into the office a few days a week, and
b.) employers who require it.

So I think from a commuting perspective, demand shouldn't fall too much in the long term. Super-commuting and intercity business trips are where the real change will occur. Amtrak will have to reorient its service around new demand patterns and focus on serving a new market. I wouldn't be surprised if at some point we get a coach class on the Acela IIs.

Mr. Wolf, within their budget document available as a PDF at their website, METRA is expecting that during CY22, 80% of their CY19 riders will return.

You've noted here, you "want to go back in"; only you know how your colleagues feel about it.

I think that METRA projection is optimistic.

Gilbert B Norman wrote: ↑Sun Feb 21, 2021 9:23 pm Mr. Wolf, within their budget document available as a PDF at their website, METRA is expecting that during CY22, 80% of their CY19 riders will return.
...
I think that METRA projection is optimistic.

80% is definitely pushing it... but I also don't know how crowded Metra was before the pandemic. Googling around doesn't give me any indications of how crowded it was outside of "There's big problems" (while I've experienced it on MARC to DC a few times and seen/read about for Metro-North).

It's why I think about it as "How much of the pre-pandemic schedule is going to be left intact a year after getting masks off?" It may be 80% of the people, but 100% people may be 120% seated capacity.

STrRedWolf wrote: ↑Mon Feb 22, 2021 9:41 am

Gilbert B Norman wrote: ↑Sun Feb 21, 2021 9:23 pm Mr. Wolf, within their budget document available as a PDF at their website, METRA is expecting that during CY22, 80% of their CY19 riders will return.
...
I think that METRA projection is optimistic.

80% is definitely pushing it... but I also don't know how crowded Metra was before the pandemic. Googling around doesn't give me any indications of how crowded it was outside of "There's big problems" (while I've experienced it on MARC to DC a few times and seen/read about for Metro-North).

It's why I think about it as "How much of the pre-pandemic schedule is going to be left intact a year after getting masks off?" It may be 80% of the people, but 100% people may be 120% seated capacity.

It varies based on time, but the ~8 AM inbound express trains are almost always standing room only. Multiple times I've ridden the 20 minutes to CUS standing in the vestibule with ten other passengers.

TurningOfTheWheel wrote: ↑Mon Feb 22, 2021 10:28 am It varies based on time, but the ~8 AM inbound express trains are almost always standing room only. Multiple times I've ridden the 20 minutes to CUS standing in the vestibule with ten other passengers.

Betcha you'll get a seat now!

Testing continues:

How many sets have been built? Is there still 2 of existence, or are there more arriving on the NEC?

Still 2 sets delivered, a third is supposed to be delivered with a fully outfitted interior within the next few months.

This is an interesting presentation:

https://fb.watch/4m0WSnxoQ1/

Pensyfan19 wrote: ↑Sat Mar 20, 2021 12:06 pm How many sets have been built? Is there still 2 of existence, or are there more arriving on the NEC?

There are at least 6 train sets completed, and another two under construction. Not sure if TS1 has gone back to Alstom for refitting yet, but TS3 is due on property some time in April.

Matt Johnson wrote: ↑Sat Mar 20, 2021 2:17 pm Still 2 sets delivered, a third is supposed to be delivered with a fully outfitted interior within the next few months.

This is an interesting presentation:

https://fb.watch/4m0WSnxoQ1/

Also available on youtube: