#41 Three Rivers Trip Report PHL-CHI 5/27/04-5/28/04

So far I made it in one piece!

We left Philadelphia 30th St on time at 2:35PM. Train was completely sold out, although not entirely at 30th Street. The conductors broke the cars down by final destination: Pittsburgh/Harrisburg region, Chicago (1 car), and Indiana/Ohio stops.

Trip was relatively smooth through Harrisburg. Unfortunately, we did not get a sleeper as they were sold out, so my wife and I hunkered down in coach, which wasn't bad. I was expecting a dining car, but all we had was a cafe car with a reserved section for the people in 1st class. So instead of having salisbury steak, I had to make do with a steamed cheeseburger.

The quality of ride was excellent once we cleared Paoli. I still dont understand why the train crawls so much from Zoo to Ardmore. Its tourturous. But most of the jointed rail is gone and the trip is very smooth. I did not see any Amtrak electrics pulling Keystones. In fact I asked a conductor and he tried to tell me there was no electric engines on these rails since 1989.

After Harrisburg, things started to go downhill. As soon as we pulled out of the station we had to stop and wait 20minutes for a NS freight to roll through. This was a bad sign of things to come.

We started rolling along again, track was fairly comfortable, no rocking/swaying or jointed rail again. Funny that the freight trackage was in much better shape than Amtrak's. Anyway, it was interesting to roll through Altoona, Gallitzin and Johnstown during daylight hours.

We arrived at Pittsburgh a little late at 10:05 (sched 10:00) and had a 30 minute stop where luggage was loaded, trash was unloaded and the longhaulers going to Chicago got on. We were on our way again by 10:40.

Shortly after leaving Pittsburgh, around 11:15 we abruptly came to a stop when the engineer threw the train into emergency. We sat for another 20 minutes for several freights to roll through.

I went to sleep shortly thereafter, or tried to anyway. I know there were many stops in the night.

I woke around 6:00am expecting to be 2 hours from chicago. I found out we were way off schedule and would not arrive until 9:00. We had further delays in Indiana which set us back a total of 3:45 by the time we arrived in Chicago.

I'll try and give more detail later, I'm still recovering from my attempts at sleeping in coach.

This is a continuation of my first posting.

Forgive me guys if I'm not giving a minute-by-minute detail of my trip, this is going to be more of a observant summary.

Sunday 5/30: Return on Train #40 CHI-PHL- I arrived at Chicago Union Station on Train #352 (Wolverine) from Ann Arbor at 6:00, which was an hour late due to tornado warnings. The tornado warnings caused Amtrak dispatchers to issue a 15mph speed limit on a 40 mile radius from downtown Chicago, nevermind that NS freights were breezing by us at 40-50mph. Our conductor saw this too and decided to call ops on his cell phone and ask that the restriction be lifted. It finally was.

Our train left ontime at 10:35CST, only to be held up at the end of the terminal for 15min while we waited for another Amtrak to pull in (if this happens daily, why not have the train leave 15 min later?).

I did not notice until after I bought my ticket, but trains going to PHL from Chicago have an additional 2-hours built into the schedule for some reason between Napanee and Forstoria. I was asleep then (1 am) but I'm guessing it was for nighttime freight traffic, or something to that effect.

When I woke around 7, we were running about an hour behind schedule, and pulled into Pittsburgh at 10:35. I guess there is enough padding built in to make up time.

We had another delay approaching Harrisburg around 4:30 while waiting for another freight to pass. We waited about 15 min.

Everything was smooth until we hit Lancaster where we were told that the next block was single track only and we would have to wait until train #41 went by, which was another 20min.

Things finally got rolling along again until we hit SEPTA territory where we slowed to a snails crawl again, doing 25-30 mph tops. Between Thorndale and Paoli still seems to be jointed rail.

We finally pulled into 30th Street around 7:15, only 1:10min late. Alot better compared to train #40 which was almost 3 hrs late to CHI.

Now some commentary:

I was very dissapointed in the equipment I rode in. Going to PHL I was in a Bombardier (is there a name for this?) coach, which had no electric outlets. For most travellers today that is a must, especially when you're spending 20 hours on a train, and you carry a cellphone and laptop. All I could think of was the Amtrak commercials showing people talking on their phones and using their laptops while riding the train. Guess that only applies to NEC riders.

I tried to upgrade my seat from coach to sleeper. The conductor said "I think they're full", so I'm not sure if that meant they were full or if it meant "I dont feel like checking and going through the process of moving you there".

The food wasn't bad, you can't expect a whole lot in coach, or on a train without a diner, but they had chicken sandwiches, cheeseburgers, pizzas, etc...Was good enough for me.

I was also a little dissapointed in the lack of enforcement of the no-smoking policy. Twice I woke during the night to the smell of nicotine rolling through the car as some college kids snuck off some butts in the vestibule. No one else seemed to care, so I dealt with it and went to sleep.

I'm sure this isnt feasible, but a quiet car would have been nice. Seems like no one knows how to "quietly" converse on a cell phone.

My biggest dissapointment was the lack of on-time performance. On my return trip despite all of the padding built into the schedule, we still managed to arrive at PHL an hour late. At several points during the trip I actually thought we might get there on time as we were always down an hour, but seemed like we could really haul and make the time up, only to lose it again with another delay. Alot of people including myself had connections to make at the other end, and its really frustrating having to reschedule everything because trains dont run ontime.

Our train (#40 and #41) were both stuffed. It was almost a sell-out train. I'm not sure if this was because of the holiday or not, but I got the impression that most people weren't casual rail-fan/vacation travellers.

I'm wondering if it would help Amtrak to profile its LD train riders, to get an idea of whose needs they are meeting. Do these people ride because they don't like Greyhound? Or because they can't afford a plane ticket? If they can fill more cars, maybe the increased revenue would help in some aspect.

The HAR-PHL portion of the ride was a bit depressing. I know they're working on it, but its sad to see catenary with no rail underneath, no electric trains, rotted ties and rusted tracks, and a general underutilization of the ROW, only to hear "we have to wait for the outbound train to pass before we proceed".

I dont think anyone would agree that this is night and day compared to the NEC. It was definitely a very inefficient operation, and I'm sorry to say but that was probablly my last LD train trip. Just too long and filled with issues. It seems like its almost accepted that LD trains are late by a few hours and this is normal. People are outraged by 20mins late on the NEC. Its too bad lateness has become normal outside the NEC. If the system is that unreliable, what good is it?

I knew the train would be late going into this so I scheduled my train to Michigan accordingly, but I could have easily saved 6 hours each way had these trains performed according to schedule. I suppose the timetable is more of a anticipated time than actual.

I was happy with our crew though. They were upbeat, cheery and accomodating. It was nice to see that they at least liked their jobs.

I'd like to open this up now to discussion/questions/comments....

Oh almost forgot...both trains still haul more frieght than passengers...I thought Amtrak was doing away with that?

Give it another crack, Mr. Frey. But make it Sleeper.

Your commentary is simply indicative of why most at this board travel sleeper; to me it is simply the difference between an expectation of a pleasurable travel experience and an endurance contest.

Naturally, if you are a "Type A", the only train out there you should be on is an Acela. If perchance a "control freak" the only way you should be traveling about is in your SUV.

Hey Gil---while I might be more type A than type B, I can certainly tolerate long trips, sleeper would have been much better, however I wasn't prepared to pay more for a sleeper for a 19 hour trip than I would for a room at the Comfort Inn. When you're travelling on a budget, as most were, it isn't an option.

More than anything, I was just amazed at the stark contrast between Amtrak NEC and the Mid-West division. Unfortunately thats the way it is since Amtrak does not control the tracks, but out of 4 trains I rode, all 4 were 30min to 3 hours late. I don't really consider that acceptable when you consider most people were making transfers to other trains/modes of transportation. Most cell phone calls I overheard were people calling to say "pick me up in 2 hours...no 3 hours....no 4 hours...".

I'm not blaming Amtrak, but as a whole, we have to do better than this.

jfrey40535 wrote:I did not notice until after I bought my ticket, but trains going to PHL from Chicago have an additional 2-hours built into the schedule for some reason between Napanee and Forstoria. I was asleep then (1 am) but I'm guessing it was for nighttime freight traffic, or something to that effect.

That "some reason" is called a time zone. Since Indiana wants to be all different and not observe DST, the time zone boundary is at the IN/OH border during the summer months.

I was very dissapointed in the equipment I rode in. Going to PHL I was in a Bombardier (is there a name for this?) coach, which had no electric outlets. For most travellers today that is a must, especially when you're spending 20 hours on a train, and you carry a cellphone and laptop. All I could think of was the Amtrak commercials showing people talking on their phones and using their laptops while riding the train. Guess that only applies to NEC riders.

The Horizon fleet has some coaches that were upgraded to include electrical outlets, and some that weren't. Was your coach (hopefully) a 60-seat car instead of a 76-seat car?

jfrey40535 wrote:I'm not blaming Amtrak, but as a whole, we have to do better than this.

To steal a line from Matt Fels:

http://www.house.gov/writerep/
http://www.senate.gov/

No it was a 76er....Will writing a politician actually do any good? I've been doing that here in Philly for years trying to get better service and I get the same garbage back all the time.

I'm kind of hoping for $5/gallon gas. Maybe people will wake up.

I'm not blaming Amtrak

Really? Sure sounded like it with that "Comfort Inn" crack. I've been noticing a peculiar trend here, that correspondents who initially report having a good trip later turn around and take at least half of it back, with some snappy (or so they hope) comment. Must have something to do with street cred in the so-called railfan so-called community.

The correspondent was explicitly advised here to take that trip only if prepared to spend the whole trip in a single coach seat and still count the trip a success. He went.

Now then, does the correspondent feel that the experience represented fair value for the RailSale fares paid?

Mr. Frey--
Sad to say, your expectations of Amtrak are unrealistic and unlikely to be met. Your comments indicate that you don't comprehend the depths of Amtrak's money shortage. And, sleepers have cost more than the equivalent of Comfort Inns for at least the last hundred years or so, maybe longer.
Most Amtrak cars do not have electric outlets at each seat. Even on Acela there is not an outlet for each seat.
Amtrak has almost no extra cars. It has no extra money to pay extra crews. It has no ability to run more trains, and very little ability to run longer trains. Congress has prohibited it from instituting new routes--and hasn't given it enough money to maintain its current routes.
The freight railroads have cut their route mileage to the point where existing mainlines in reasonable shape (the kind most likely to have Amtrak trains) are jammed with freight. Of the major railroads, only BNSF seems to try to run Amtrak trains on time. UP, NS and CSX do, I believe, get some incentive payments for on-time Amtrak performance, but the payments don't seem to be enough to motivate them to give Amtrak a break.
On the NEC, Amtrak has many delays. Acelas are often late or canceled. The Acela equipment is very trouble-prone. The NEC infrastructure is old and crumbling. Amtrak is not given nearly enough money to maintain it.
Mr. Frey, you were very lucky to have a friendly, cheerful crew. In these times of austerity for Amtrak and regular folks' wages, but prosperity for billionaires, car manufacturers and oil companies, there is not likely to be an improvement in Amtrak service or accommodations in the near future.
The reality, for trips outside the NEC, is that, to avoid mental pain, aggravation and missed connections, you have to schedule your trips to allow a couple of hours lateness in summer and more in winter. If you expect an on-time trip you will be mostly disappointed and angry. For railfans who plan their trips with enough padding, the trick is to look at delays as more hours on the train for the same money. Also, you can use your scanner to try to figure out what the cause of each delay is. (Hint: Use earphones with the scanner.)
I would go along with Mr Norman in strongly suggesting a sleeper for long trips. Especially in summer, coaches tend to be crowded, and, as I said earlier, Amtrak has very limited ability to add cars to accommodate increased passenger loads--another consequence of having no money. You shouldn't compare the cost of a sleeper to the cost of a motel--it isn't comparable. From your comments, if you can't afford a sleeper, don't try to sleep in coach--it doesn't provide you with a pleasurable experience. Instead, break up your trip by staying at an actual Comfort Inn and then resuming your Amtrak trip the next day. If this takes too much time, you might be able to find a cheap plane ticket. And, for perspective, remember that the worst Amtrak trip is better than a long trip on the Hound.

I remember my first trip on the Three Rivers... never uderstood why there was no diner car involved on this trip...

-otto-

Otto, the simple answer to why there is no diner on the Three Rivers is that there aren't enough dining cars. Which, once again, comes down to Amtrak's shortage of money. I better watch it--soon I'll be sounding like Matt Fels.

Joe:
I am very aware of Amtrak's financial distress. I'm just amazed that in this country running national rail transportation bottom of the proiority list.

I can't say I've ever been on an Amtrak car without A electrical outlet for each set of seats, true there aren't outlets to accomodate EVERY passenger, but this car had zilch, zero, nada.

Matt: Yes I chose RailSale because it was cheap. Forget for the moment that I'm a railfan. I find it hard to justify the cost of a sleeper room for what you get out of it. I did get some sleep in coach, but the amount of sleep I would have gotten in a sleeper did not justify the cost. If Comfort Inn can make money renting rooms for $70 a night which includes a full room, maid service, free internet, cable, and breakfast, why does Amtrak charge more than twice that for a section of a railcar with a door and two seats that fold into a bed? Sure meals are included but there's something wrong with that equasion there.

I didn't exactly call the trip a failure. Dissapointing, yes, but not a failure. If you read my original posting, I already had tickets in hand without the sleeper option so I didn't exactly have a choice. All of the sleepers were sold out which tells me that there is not enough supply, and if Amtrak makes money on putting people in sleepers, and they are filling, then it should be a high priority to get sleeper cars on trains that can fill them.

You misunderstood my points Matt, the railsale was a good value, the bad value was the quality of the coaches (are electric outlets for NEC riders only?), number of delays. I ride the NEC every week, and maybe once a month will I have a regional train that is more than 5 minutes late. Call it luck.

Finally I'm sorry to say that if you are using Amtrak LD to go from A to B and not to railfan, it is a useless service. If I have to add 12 hours of padding to a roundtrip, why bother? Might as well shut it down and take Greyhound. Look at the Downeaster, the buses we all loathe get you there faster. Is there an excuse for this?

Guys, don't take these comments as being from a "miserable trip" or anti-Amtrak. I want them to succeed and have great LD service. I'm simply trying to identify the shortfalls it has because they need to be fixed. People do use the LD trains to go somewhere, and not railfan, or go on vacations. I did not see any senior citizens like the ones on the Amtrak timetable cover, or railfans with scanners having a blast on a train trip. I did see alot of single moms going to visit family, students going home, and myself going to see relatives for a family event. So it is clear people want to use this and will take it over greyhound, but could we make these trains 30 cars of passengers instead of 4 cars + 25 cars of freight if it was efficient? you tell me.

JoeG wrote: On the NEC, Amtrak has many delays. Acelas are often late or canceled. The Acela equipment is very trouble-prone. The NEC infrastructure is old and crumbling. Amtrak is not given nearly enough money to maintain it.

My last two trips aboard the Acela were fast, smooth, and on-time, but overall I don't know what their on-time percentage has been lately. Are the Acela Express trains still considered to be trouble-prone, or has their reliability improved since fixing some of the initial flaws?

And as for the NEC infrastructure, I'd say "old and crumbling" might be an overstatement. For the most part, the tracks and roadbed are in excellent shape. Most of the time you're riding on welded rail and concrete ties. A number of interlockings could still use work, though.

The biggest infrastructure need is probably replacement of the ex-PRR variable tension catenary with new constant tension wires. I know there are also a few bridges that need refurbishment or replacement, and the Baltimore tunnels are often cited as being due for retirement (I don't know if there's any structural concern, or if it's just that they're so slow).

The New Haven - Boston portion of the NEC is in excellent condition!

HSR--
The roadbed on the NEC is is pretty good shape, but the rest of the infrastructure is in bad shape. One of Mr. Gunn's examples is failing electric feeder cables. There is some redundancy, but that is gone in some places because of failures. The old catenary itself is in need of replacement but so is the less visible electric infrastructure. The Baltimore tunnels are in bad shape. The East River and Hudson River tunnels are in need of work that has been scheduled, but some won't be completed until 2009!. Many bridges are in need of work. This is all deferred maintenance. No one knows when some of these things will fail, but a major failure of a NEC bridge, or of one of the Baltimore tunnels, would be catastrophic.
I believe that the Acela trainsets are still failing a lot, but perhaps one more knowledgeable than I could give us details. Last month I took an Acela RT from NYP to BOS. My train to BOS left on time but got to BOS about 1/2 hr late because of trackwork in Connecticut. However, the Acela before mine (the one that's scheduled to leave NYP at 8:03 AM) was 50 min late leaving because of equipment problems. I am frequently in NYP a bit before 8 and often hear announcements of delays to that 8:03 Acela, but I haven't tracked them.