2015 Papal visit

ChemiosMurphy wrote:

bikentransit wrote:Sounds like those who work in center city will be SOL that week.

Service truncation will only be on weekend, but it should still be pretty bad during the week...

My daughter works in the city and has to be there over the weekend. Her employer's making arrangements for a giant sleep-over!

A special $10, three-day SEPTA transit pass, valid from Saturday, September 26 through Monday, September 28, will be sold for travel on subways, buses and trolleys. Standard SEPTA passes and tokens can also be used on these transit modes. For Regional Rail, a one-day special event pass valid for Saturday, and another valid for Sunday, will be sold for $10 each in advance. Only those riders with the pre-purchased special event passes will be permitted to ride Regional Rail. Quantities for sale will be limited to the number of riders SEPTA can carry on the vehicles in operation. No passes will be sold on the day of the event.

?????
First, does SEPTA plan to sell any of these "instruments" where people actually board vehicles, or will it be the same run-around as usual - i.e. exact fare only, no change given; no token/no ticket, then pay a surcharge?

Second, if only pass-holders can board the RRD, what happens at the Airport? It's bad enough regular incoming passengers get screwed by the lack of TVMs, does this mean anyone arriving for the papal visit won't be able to take the Airport line at all?

Unless I'm jumping the gun, it sounds like yet another of SEPTA's half-thought plans with negative consequences for riders.

JeffK wrote:

ChemiosMurphy wrote:

bikentransit wrote:Sounds like those who work in center city will be SOL that week.

Service truncation will only be on weekend, but it should still be pretty bad during the week...

My daughter works in the city and has to be there over the weekend. Her employer's making arrangements for a giant sleep-over!

A special $10, three-day SEPTA transit pass, valid from Saturday, September 26 through Monday, September 28, will be sold for travel on subways, buses and trolleys. Standard SEPTA passes and tokens can also be used on these transit modes. For Regional Rail, a one-day special event pass valid for Saturday, and another valid for Sunday, will be sold for $10 each in advance. Only those riders with the pre-purchased special event passes will be permitted to ride Regional Rail. Quantities for sale will be limited to the number of riders SEPTA can carry on the vehicles in operation. No passes will be sold on the day of the event.

?????
First, does SEPTA plan to sell any of these "instruments" where people actually board vehicles, or will it be the same run-around as usual - i.e. exact fare only, no change given; no token/no ticket, then pay a surcharge?

Second, if only pass-holders can board the RRD, what happens at the Airport? It's bad enough regular incoming passengers get screwed by the lack of TVMs, does this mean anyone arriving for the papal visit won't be able to take the Airport line at all?

Unless I'm jumping the gun, it sounds like yet another of SEPTA's half-thought plans with negative consequences for riders.

I am with you in advocating for TVM devices at the airport, as well as at all subway stations, generally speaking. However, day passes are currently sold on board all regional rail trains (except NJ) and there is no surcharge for that. The cost of daypass during papal events is actually discounted, which will encourage presales at non airport locations. The prepaid only pass rules may be lip service, for airport riders should still be accommodated on board somehow. Or, since sales start a month from now, perhaps ordering online will be the way to go, or having someone mail it to you in advance.

nomis wrote:A quick google search showed no articles on the 1979.

Not to mention those plans for the Reading side garages that would really be needed for the one day.

When using google for historical references it is important to use date constraints. I found SEPTA and Conrail mentioned on page 3 of the UPENN student run newspaper dated Oct 4, 1979.

" SEPTA and Conrail reported that all schedules were abandoned with both systems putting virtually every bus, train, trolley and subway in service, stopping at every station on every line...
schedules were reinstated by 9:15"

An inbound derailment at Melrose Park in the evening would have caused far worse problems had it been on an outbound track, for sure! This is probably when Melrose was still three tracks, too right? The derailment occurred 7pm and was cleared by 9pm.

crowds estimated at 1.3 million were counted at the parkway mass.

http://www.library.upenn.edu/docs/kisla ... _10_04.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

So in 1979 Conrail didn't stop serving almost the entire system as SEPTA plans to do. There were also many more lines & stations back then, including Reading, West Chester, Bethlehem & Allentown, which would have helped with driving/parking.

The SEPTA plans show no service to most of the subway stations as well. How will people get to the event if the trains aren't stopping there?

bikentransit wrote:So in 1979 Conrail didn't stop serving almost the entire system as SEPTA plans to do. There were also many more lines & stations back then, including Reading, West Chester, Bethlehem & Allentown, which would have helped with driving/parking.

The SEPTA plans show no service to most of the subway stations as well. How will people get to the event if the trains aren't stopping there?

This is the best possible plan. At least people know ahead of time that the station is OOS. Think back to the World Series parade in 08. My Warminster train stopped at 2 stations and skipped the rest. People can line up at the proper station and just wait while trains zip back and forth.

What other option do you really have if trains are going to fill up at a single station?

Everyone:

Good to see that some of the SEPTA transit plan for the WMOF and Papal Visit has finally been released to the Public...

From what I am aware of the reason for the limited amount of stations is that all attendees will be subject to airline style security
screening from either the TSA or DHS and where the most parking is available...

Selling a special three day pass and special day passes are a good idea for WMOF attendees in advance - but it looks to me that with
the Regional Rail system being cut to limited use regular commuters and others dependent will be out of luck on those three Papal Visit days.
What surprised me is how limited the MFSE and BSL will be in use for with many stations closed for those three days...

Another mention is that the City of Philadelphia expects 5000 to 6000 buses to be used by attendees to travel to Philadelphia from all over
North America for the Papal Visit - no indication if the City can handle this amount of buses - or where they will be parked for that matter...

With the rail system slated to handle massive amounts of riders for these events SEPTA, NJT and Amtrak should be ready for the challenge
and with some careful planning - and good timing - should be the best way to get to the events of the WMOF and Papal Visit...

MACTRAXX

In 1979 there was a bigger work force. Trains had to be staffed with an Engineer, Fireman, Head Brakeman, Conductor, Flagman, etc.

Most stations were staffed with ticket and freight agents handling all the waybilling for branch lines served by Conrail for both freight and passenger trains.

I'm sure in 1979 Conrail had access to a much bigger pool of equipment and manpower than current staffing and equipment levels.

2015 presents much more logistical problems that are systemic of today's business model of doing as much as possible with the least amount of bodies.

Does anyone else think the skeleton septa is too far an overreaction? Since this was a preliminary announcement, is there any chance there can be a follow up in a few weeks adding jenkintown, trenton, and a few other sensible options? How can the whole river line just close? that would have been a helpful detour around the Trenton Line, right?

will the 22 and 55 service fern rock or will people be forced to walk 6 blocks to connect to BSL?

will there be shuttle buses from outlying stsations not served?

Launcher wrote:Does anyone else think the skeleton septa is too far an overreaction? Since this was a preliminary announcement, is there any chance there can be a follow up in a few weeks adding jenkintown, trenton, and a few other sensible options? How can the whole river line just close? that would have been a helpful detour around the Trenton Line, right?

will the 22 and 55 service fern rock or will people be forced to walk 6 blocks to connect to BSL?

will there be shuttle buses from outlying stsations not served?

Launcher and Everyone:

Yes - I feel that SEPTA will make changes up to and until the WMOF week in September and may add stations depending on how many
security personnel are available - and because of this extraordinary event and the huge ridership that SEPTA is anticipating many regular
services will be curtailed or not available for those three days since the equipment and manpower will be needed to service this event.

The major difference between the 1979 Papal Visit and today is that security is going to be extremely tight during these events much more
so then it was back then making the challenge of staging the Papal Masses much larger...

MACTRAXX

Launcher wrote:I am with you in advocating for TVM devices at the airport, as well as at all subway stations, generally speaking. However, day passes are currently sold on board all regional rail trains (except NJ) and there is no surcharge for that. The cost of daypass during papal events is actually discounted, which will encourage presales at non airport locations. The prepaid only pass rules may be lip service, for airport riders should still be accommodated on board somehow. Or, since sales start a month from now, perhaps ordering online will be the way to go, or having someone mail it to you in advance.

As things stand now, which is obviously very preliminary, there's nothing in any public communication about the options of buying a Daypass on board or pre-ordering online. I contacted a city rep via Facebook to suggest strongly that SEPTA needs to communicate ALL options in advance. Without NPT, "business as usual" fare collection will be a nightmare.

The Airport IMO is particularly troublesome. It's ridiculous enough that day-to-day passengers can't use TVMs (subjecting everyone to the infernal surcharge-that-isn't) and can't pay electronically. Toss in thousands of people who'll have no clue about SEPTA's policies, with a subset of those arriving from overseas where 21st-century payment technology is the norm, and I'm concerned there will be another meltdown. I can't see how the conductors will be able handle every fare manually while managing large wads of cash. And given that the only bills you can get from most ATMs are $20s I don't want to know what happens e.g. if the conductors run out of lower denominations and can't make change.

You could have conductors/supervisors collecting fares on the platform. That would help a lot.

ekt8750 wrote:You could have conductors/supervisors collecting fares on the platform. That would help a lot.

JK,EKT and Everyone:

There should be temporary ticket offices set up at the Airport Line stations that will be accessible - they should be secure because riders
will be screened upon entry and with the way those stations are set up collecting fares before boarding should be somewhat easy...
For that matter any outlying RRD station that is to be used that has no ticket sales facility should have a temporary office set up
for the three days of the Papal Visit for sales so as many fares as possible can be collected off train alongside security checks...

Yes - there will be many riders that will be unfamiliar with the SEPTA Regional Rail System - and I do not feel that NPT would help matters
unless it was well established because subjecting riders to a new payment system that almost no one is familiar with is not the way to go
here - I can see a negative reaction to NPT TVM machines by those who are either new to using mass transit or do not live in a city with a
up and running similar smart card payment system - and with this high ridership series of events having a human presence will go a long way
to presenting SEPTA and Philadelphia in a good light especially at "gateway" stations like at the Airport...

MACTRAXX

I think that what is ultimately being applied here are lessons from October 2008 and the addition of an allowance for an even bigger crowd.

Speaking of crowd management, I can understand serving only the most oulying stations. However, to echo some of the folks here, SEPTA should operate to all stations that possess ticket offices. Being that one of the stations on the list is my home station (Croydon, which has no ticket office), I can only IMAGINE how crazy the traffic and parking are going to be here.

To add another dimension to this plan, I wonder if they considered serving stations near hotels? (a few that come to mind are Trevose, Woodbourne, Cornwells Heights*, Warminster*, Hatboro*/Willow Grove*) Why not make a partnership with those hotels to run shuttles? Not to mention, I bet some people are going to be making a killing through AirBnB renting out properties.

Plus, no connections at Trenton* and no additional Atlantic City* service? I would think those would be a good tool for dispersing the ridership evenly across the region (plus, New Jersey probably wouldn't mind the additional tax revenue from this event at all).

[* denotes available ticket offices and TVMs]

bikentransit wrote:Sounds like those who work in center city will be SOL that week.

And also let's not forget about the protesters (there will be protests as well).

Of course the Pampered Paoli line and most of the rest of the Pampered Pennsylvania Railroad lines get multiple stops while West Trenton and all but one other Reading lines only get one stop each. Woodbourne only? Ridiculous! Somerton or Bethayres would be a viable second station if SEPTA wants to do the right thing and stop treating the Reading side as 2nd class citizens.