100 express service

I noticed that the latest RT100 schedule eliminated express rush hour service to/from Norristown (except for 1 super express each way that only makes a few stops). Anyone know why?

Thanks,

Bob

I'm not sure what the stated reason was, but I can think of at least 3 parts to the puzzle:

1. Ridership drops off during the summer.

2. You have fewer empty seats on the Bryn Mawr-69th St. part of the system, so the effective revenue mileage is higher.

3. SEPTA doesn't really know how to run this line.

None of this (except possibly #3) answers why they can't simply increase headways a bit or run 1-car expresses instead of 2 cars, rather than eliminating all express service. There may be fewer people boarding north of Bryn Mawr for a couple of months, but those riders are still looking for a fast way to their destination. Instead, everyone has to sit through what is probably even slower than weekend service.

SEPTA seems to have a fascination with eliminating express service on long routes. For ex., when the 123 bus was introduced, part of its draw was that it provided a comparatively quick (35-40 minutes), one seat ride from K of P to Upper Darby. A few passengers on West Chester Pike grumbled about seeing the 123s run as expresses even though the Pike has several local routes with headways of every 5 or 10 minutes. Result? SEPTA converted the 123 to a local and the 40 minute trip morphed to 50 minutes or an hour. The local riders save a couple of minutes off what is already a short trip, and the long-distance passengers see their travel time go up by 25 or 50%.

By that reasoning, the R5 should have nothing but local service from Downingtown to Lansdale. I guess it makes sense to someone at 1234 - - ???

This is ironic---- originally, in 1912 during P&W days and when the Norristown "extension" opened ( and you still had the Strafford branch) all Norristown service ran as express service as far as Villanova Jct. P&W as the P&W always ran some form of express service to Norristown with Strafford trains, and some short turn Bryn Mawr trains providing the local service. And, of course, LVT Liberty Bell Limited trains to and from Allentown always ran non stop over the P&W stopping only to service passengers headed for points north of Norristown.---- How times have changed!

walt wrote:How times have changed!

The P&W ran "tripper" service into the late 70s, with local cars running to Bryn Mawr while others operated semi-express out to Radnor or Conshy Road. There were also (I think) Limiteds from Norristown that began skip-stop service around Gulph Mills or Radnor. End-to-end on the Limiteds was around 20 minutes. The principle was, the further out you boarded, the faster the trip.

The trippers and other express services were cut back as the old Brill cars started to fail. For a while there was nothing but local service when the CTAs were first brought in. Once they had enough rehabbed CTAs and regauged Almond Joys, the current pattern of Bryn Mawr locals and Norristown Expresses was established.

It never seems to have dawned on anyone that the N-5s could provide something resembling the old level of service, adjusted of course for current travel patterns which have more reverse-commute trips than 30 years ago. Instead, SEPTA has stuck with the CTA pattern for a decade and a half. In fact, for the first 3 years or so of N-5 service, most trips were with 2 cars even on runs where the second car always ran empty. One of the operators told me that when they went to management to suggest running single cars, they were told that since the CTAs ran in pairs, the N-5s had to as well.

Even Homer Simpson might have been able to figure out that the CTAs were in married pairs and couldn't run alone.

Apparantly no one thought to examine the previous P&W/ Red Arrow operating practice in which most runs used single cars!

SETPA should have adopted a new slogan: "Hindsight is nonexistant."

walt wrote:Apparently no one thought to examine the previous P&W/ Red Arrow operating practice in which most runs used single cars!

queenlnr8 wrote:SEPTA should have adopted a new slogan: "Hindsight is nonexistent."

There was an old insult directed at bureaucrats or politicians that read something like "They remember everything but learn nothing". In SEPTA's case it's more like they've forgotten everything, too.

This is what comes from bean-counters making the decisions at all levels. I don't think anyone involved in the 100 line today has a clue about running a railroad, except maybe the HO set they had as a kid. It's looking more and more like a bus route that just happens to have rails under it.

Speaking of all this 'Express Service' on the 100, are there any passing sidings on the route? ... So that an Express or Limited could overtake a Local?

I'm really not that familiar with those kind of specifics, but I do know that there are three tracks at Bryn Mawr. Granted in the old operating paradigm wherein cars would run local to Bryn Mawr or express to Norristown, it wouldn't matter much, but if there were both Norristown locals and expresses operating, the local could be held at Bryn Mawr to let an express pass it.

I'm not familiar with any other passing sidings or three-track stations.

-asg

amusing erudition wrote:I'm really not that familiar with those kind of specifics, but I do know that there are three tracks at Bryn Mawr. Granted in the old operating paradigm wherein cars would run local to Bryn Mawr or express to Norristown, it wouldn't matter much, but if there were both Norristown locals and expresses operating, the local could be held at Bryn Mawr to let an express pass it.

I'm not familiar with any other passing sidings or three-track stations.

-asg

My recollection and information from the original edition of Ronald DeGraw's book The Red Arrow confirms the above. At one point, for a very short period of time ( circa 1905) there were three tracks at the then Beechwood Park Station, to serve the amusement park which had been established at that location, however the park failed and closed in 1909. The third track was removed sometime in the late 1920's or early 1930's.

Jeff, there still a turnback and third track at Wynnewood Road?
I seem to recall at least one or two trippers operating there from time to time when I rode the P&W regularly in the 80s.

Matthew Mitchell wrote:Jeff, there still a turnback and third track at Wynnewood Road?
I seem to recall at least one or two trippers operating there from time to time when I rode the P&W regularly in the 80s.

Matt,
AFAIK the turnback is still there in some form or another. The only recent changes to the turnbacks anywhere on the line was moving (or was it adding?) a crossover near Radnor about 15 or 20 years ago.

As far as passing sidings, no, the line does not have any in the strict sense of the word. Locals would have to pull off at one of the stations with a third track such as Bryn Mawr in order to let an express go by. That's in effect what happens with the Bryn Mawr Locals that pull north of the station, then reverse into the pocket track for the trip home while the express comes up about 2 minutes later.

The line was originally supposed to support 3 or 4 tracks at least as far as Bryn Mawr. Many of the bridges have double underpasses and the width of the original ROW is still very evident in a lot of places. There are some stations where the platform sits on what should have been the outside track and is connected to the ROW edge by a long footpath.

Theoretically there is enough of the original ROW left that a third track could be built from 69th Street to Bryn Mawr, with some disruptions. Of course that would require a few things:

> Lots of $$$
> Appointing a few of us as planners instead of the no-can-do's at 1234
> Pigs flying

SEPTA has a different idea of what the term "express" means. To someone such as myself, express means fast. To SEPTA, it means that there are fewer stops. For example, on the R-3, train #357 leaves 30th Street at 4:10 pm, makes all stops, and arrives in Elwyn at 4:45 for an elapsed time of 35 minutes. The next train, #9361, runs express to Secane and local to Elwyn. From 30th St. to Elwyn takes 31 minutes.

queenlnr8 wrote:Speaking of all this 'Express Service' on the 100, are there any passing sidings on the route? ... So that an Express or Limited could overtake a Local?

Yeah the line is double track all the way to Bridgeport. The express zone currently extends to Bryn Mawr with a stop at Ardmore Jct. to connect with the 103 Ardmore bus.

There are crossovers at Wynnewood Rd., Bryn Mawr, Radnor, and Hughes Park for possible turnbacks. It really wouldn't be safe to have cars crossing over to wrong rail just to pass a local, and the way the scheduleing is the local cars always depart after expresses anyway.

It's been about two months since the schedule change. I wonder if anyone has any opinions on it now.

I've taken the Route 100 a couple times since the change and notice that not many people get on or off between Bryn Mawr and 69th Street. Since they can pass stations without stopping, it seems about as fast as an express.

At peak times, there are 8 trolleys per hour. The run from 69th St to Bryn Mawr is about 10 minutes, and to Norristown is about 30 minutes during peak times. There aren't really enough trolleys on the line to justify another track.

I'd like to see more two-car trains during peak hours. The cars seat only 56, and adding 40 standees is really packing them in. There are almost 8,000 weekday riders and almost 2.5 million annual passengers on this line. If it were a RRD line, it would have better ridership than 9 out of the 13 RRD lines.