Worst case of schedule padding?

My experience with Amtrak is limited to the NE corridor, the Keystones and Pennsylvanian, so I'm curious what are some of the longest waits people have endured as a result of arriving early.

My only example is the Pennsylvanian, which typically schedules 30 minutes for an engine switch (and sometimes crew change) in Philly. When we've been running late I've seen this done in 15-20 minutes. One day we got in roughly 45 mins before our scheduled departure, and the wait felt like it went on forever. The 15 min Harrisburg stop over has taken 30 minutes due to arriving early, but I know a crew changeover occurs here...

So that's my one case, there's bound to be others.

When I was commuting earlier than I am now, I'd occasionally roll under the #19 Crescent in Atlanta at around 7:50, scheduled arrival wasn't until 8:13, and usually it was truly sitting, no hint that it had just popped in.

The overnight Regional (66/67) spends a long stop at NYP.

I need to go back and search the national timetable, but from the top of my head, the Texas Eagle has to be the worst for distance traveled. Southbound, from its arrival at Dallas to the arrival at Cleburne TX(The two cities are 59 railroad miles apart) it takes 3 hr 20 min. Yes, there is a reverse move move in Fort Worth that entails using a major and very busy junction/crossing a few times, but still, please, that is one huge pad(Does the TE still do this move in FW? Or does it traverse the old RI and not the old T&P main within DFW?). I think NB, the time is cut an hour. Most likely because it is closer to the origin and not the terminus. I understand that when a train journey point to point is scheduled for 30 plus hours, what is a few hours within that time? But, I see these run-times as a major factor of what is wrong with most of the LD's and most needing of improvement (Yes, I know in railroad-eese, cutting 2 hours off a 24 hour schedule most of the time translates in English to $2 billion in infrastructure improvements). But that is for another thread.

I know years ago, there was major dwell time at Dallas and Fort Worth (mostly FW) because of switching the merchandise cars and equipment moves for the Heartland Flyer. I remember the three person Amtrak crew that did the switching would do the work at Dallas when the SB Eagle arrived, then jump into a pickup truck, drive to Fort Worth, sit for an hour waiting for the SB arrival. do switch work upon arrival, wait for the NB to arrive, switch, jump back in the truck, drive to Dallas, wait an hour, switch the same NB upon arrival, and then go home.

The westbound Cardinal is scheduled to arrive in Indianapolis and wait for 1:16. Arrival is 4:44 am with departure at 6:00 am. Still, this is half an hour earlier than the 6:30 am departure in the winter schedule.

R36 Combine Coach wrote:The overnight Regional (66/67) spends a long stop at NYP.

That is partly to kill time so that the Boston and Washington arrivals and departures aren't too early or late.

TomNelligan wrote:

R36 Combine Coach wrote:The overnight Regional (66/67) spends a long stop at NYP.

That is partly to kill time so that the Boston and Washington arrivals and departures aren't too early or late.

this is very wise, and it makes sense, I think it comes from the executive sleeper days.

I remember being on #448 and they put a TON of padding in between boston and worcester, which meant that we sat in worcester for about and hour.

Many of the western LD's have over an hour to get to downtown Chicago from Naperville, while even a local Metra train takes maybe 20 or 30 minutes. Unfortunately, that usually means that LD's run very sedately over the racetrack, arriving 20 minutes early rather than an hour early. It's not a bad deal, just not the best deal. I've seen #4 be early quite a lot. If #6 doesn't get stabbed by UP, it's usually early coming off BNSF.

The one time my father rode the Sunset from Tuscon to NO prior to the "injected" padding that you mentioned, the train abnormally arrived right on schedule. Good for Amtrak, bad for him though, the Sunset always arrived @ NO three hours late then, so there was not a taxi anywhere near the station. Luckily, a local passenger, who was being picked up by his updated on arrival via cell phone wife, ended up kindly gave him a ride downtown; even though it was 180 degrees from their destination - good old southern hospitality.

I'll make a little OT comment about the above story. Ironically, same thing happened to me a few times while traveling by train - either on time, early, or really late, no other transportation was easily available at arrival time(Taxi, bus, trolley, subway, rental closed), but always was able to kindly catch a ride to my next destination, either home or hotel, from another "Happy to help" rail riding passenger. But NEVER been able to pull off a hitchhike, let alone share a taxi, from the airport! It was like I was just another column holding up the outside awning.

It takes Amtrak's Palmetto 47 minutes to travel the 8 track miles between Alexandria VA and Union Station DC.

Also, according to the time table, you can experience this epic journey as the Palmetto does not show a Discharge only mark for Alexandria.

It takes Amtrak's Boston LSL 1 hour 27 minutes to travel the 21.36 track miles from Framingham Amtrak Station to Boston South Station.

The exteme padding caught me out a few times during my amtrak travels .
A couple i specifically rememeber , waking up on the empire builder , bound for Seattle . we were 3 hours down , so i planned for a lesuirely trip to the diner for breakfast , a wash , and toilet etc . ( i think the order of the plan is abit out there , but never mind ). next minute theres an announcemnt well be arriving Seattle in 1/2 hour ! WTF , mad scramble to do the morning business and prepare to disembark .
Other time was Truckee i think , (near Lake Tahoe ).i had my bicycle ,and had rode from the youth hostel to the station . I cant remember if it was a station announcement or i rang amtrak , but the news was that the CZ was running an hour late . i thought ok , then i'll have a spot of lunch before dismantling my bike to take it on the train . no sooner had i got some food out , than clang clang clang , the bells of the arriving train .a mad rush ensured to pack my bike into its bag and get on the train , but turned out it was in no hurry to leave .

i guess the lesson is , a late train can get back on time or close to it , so do not rely on it staying late .
Of course , if I was travelling nowdays , i would be well aware of these things , thanks to railroad .net .

the sarge wrote:Yes, there is a reverse move move in Fort Worth that entails using a major and very busy junction/crossing a few times, but still, please, that is one huge pad(Does the TE still do this move in FW? Or does it traverse the old RI and not the old T&P main within DFW?).

Yes, the Texas Eagles still do the reverse move through Tower 55.
Once the TRE completes a double track segment, the Texas Eagles are planned to swap over to the TRE corridor (ex-Rock Island line). I'm not sure when construction is supposed to be completed, nor the date the Texas Eagle will make the swap.

Schedule padding is all about perception.

From the travelling public standpoint, a train that arrives on time is a "good", consistently-timed train. Most passengers look only at the arrival at their destination time, be it the end-of-the-line or somewhere in the middle. Hence, padding injected all along the route...5 mins here, 10 mins there, etc. As a result, trains have to "wait time" (eg, they arrived early) at some stations so they depart on schedule. Many passengers don't understand that the train can't leave early (except at discharge-only stations) and frequently ask: "why are we just standing here?" Arriving on-time facilitates everything from cabs to family arriving without too much waiting to meet up with the arriving passenger(s). As an aside, back in the "earlier days" of Amtrak, rolling into a station 6-10 hours late, I routinely heard: "I'll NEVER take the train again!!!". Just listen in the airport sometime when a plane arrives even 30 minutes late! Never mind that there were tornadoes in the vicinity, etc....IT WAS LATE!!! That's ALL they remember about the journey.

From the perspective of railroad management, be it Amtrak or one of the host railroads, consistent on time performance is good for at least a couple of 'atta boys'....maybe even a promotion! It doesn't matter HOW the manager succeeded in getting the train to run (usually) on time. Running on time also facilitates the 'slot' mentality for scheduling, so that, with routine, dispatchers can set up meets and passes at "the usual" locations, etc. In short, running on time keeps the railroad fluid. But then, there's the busted air hose, a dumb motorist (Darwin candidate), or SOMETHING to mess up a nice schedule!

And lastly, from the perspective of Congress, arriving at the end-point city on-time is a measureable statistic that "they" base their decisions (votes) upon. How many trains would Amtrak have today if the perception was "never on time" (like a recently merged out of existence airline I used to fly 30 years ago). Think about it.

It's all about "looking good" to whomever is "looking" at you. If its transportation, on-time performance is one of the biggest things "they" look at. Another common transportation measurement is how many dollars per mile, or per passenger, or ton of freight, or....<whatever>. It's simple and it's measureable. That's the two most important factors in every business today. Never mind quality, eg, was it comfortable?, or did the product last a long time. Unit cost, profit, and measureable consistency is what it's all about. In terms of Amtrak, happy customers come back, unhappy customers don't. The same is true of all passenger transportation enterprises.

Its been a while since I've been on so bare with me.. this seemed like a interesting topic, so here's my entry, going to Canada...
The retired International... Arrived Port Huron 4:50 pm, departs Sarnia ON 7:25 pm
(note: Throw in customs however that usually wrapped up in 30 mins or less).
Entire miles traveled 3, time: 2hrs 35 mins. hows that for padding..LOL

http://www.flickr.com/photos/8453967@N08/4093346564/

Similar padding can be found on the Maple leaf between Niagara falls NY and ON, but that's only 1hr 15 mins for 2 miles.