Why so many trains stopping at Wayne and North Broad

SCB2525 wrote:Why did they rip the islands out? Was it worth the expense?

Does anyone have any pictures of the old platforms?

I think I heard once they ripped it out because when they were doing Railworks, Septa only wanted to fund the upgrade of one North Philly station (Temple or North Broad) and they picked Temple because it apparently had more potential with the university. But that's just a rumor I heard so don't take it as fact. And I wasn't saying N. B. has Angora ridership, but disagreeing with 25hz that any station that serves the Airport should remain open. It was more of a what if situation.

Of the two, Temple definitely made a hell of a lot more sense to revamp than North Broad. That said they almost certainly spent more money reverting it to what it is now than what a simple refurbishment (paint, platform resurfacing) would have cost. Track straightening probably saved all of 20 seconds of travel-time for through trains. If the former configuration survived to today I could most certainly conceive of a situation where a Wayne Junction like project may be in order. Now that you have no islands and all the passages to the street and subway are gone, its almost a lost cause.

SCB2525 wrote:Of the two, Temple definitely made a hell of a lot more sense to revamp than North Broad. That said they almost certainly spent more money reverting it to what it is now than what a simple refurbishment (paint, platform resurfacing) would have cost. Track straightening probably saved all of 20 seconds of travel-time for through trains. If the former configuration survived to today I could most certainly conceive of a situation where a Wayne Junction like project may be in order. Now that you have no islands and all the passages to the street and subway are gone, its almost a lost cause.

seems like they did it just to the stop HAD to be skipped. in the long run restoring train service here might be part of the area's long term revitalization.

The underground passage was filled in because it was unsafe, there were many incidents down there where eyes couldn't see, the same thing was happening at Wayne Junction, there were a few incidents that made the news, sure we have CCTV now and that could be a deterrent, however in the heat of the moment CCTV won't stop an attack, it just shows what happened and hopefully who did it

Limited-Clear wrote:The underground passage was filled in because it was unsafe, there were many incidents down there where eyes couldn't see, the same thing was happening at Wayne Junction, there were a few incidents that made the news, sure we have CCTV now and that could be a deterrent, however in the heat of the moment CCTV won't stop an attack, it just shows what happened and hopefully who did it

they don't need to be filled in so much as sealed off as at 30th st. times change, filling them in assumes you'd never want to reopen them. it makes no more sense than eliminating island platforms for no good reason. railroads are long term assets and shouldn't be run by people with short term viewpoints

I agree, however 30th street is vastly different to North Broad, by filling it in you take away a best for druggies and bums to live in, potentially causing fire hazards etc, 30th Street on the other hand is a large station with many members of staff in it including the railroad police, sure it won't eliminate the problem, but by being there it is a deterrent and they can react quicker to potential issues.

Next thing we will see in these fantasy lists is a police sub station at every RRD station and an officer allocated their own car on each train

Limited-Clear wrote:I agree, however 30th street is vastly different to North Broad, by filling it in you take away a best for druggies and bums to live in, potentially causing fire hazards etc, 30th Street on the other hand is a large station with many members of staff in it including the railroad police, sure it won't eliminate the problem, but by being there it is a deterrent and they can react quicker to potential issues.

Next thing we will see in these fantasy lists is a police sub station at every RRD station and an officer allocated their own car on each train

I disagree. if it's properly sealed there's no need to fill it in. there used to be problems with "druggies and bums" until they sealed it properly. you're kidding yourself if you think they police it. there are always excuse makers but it doesn't justify extreme short sighted ness. the only fantasy is that somehow intelligent decisions are being made with long term viewpoints. and yes, SEPTA should do a better job of policing. why is it that Nester is locking up fare beaters leading to a reduction in crime? it's not rocket science or unproven tactics.

bottom line, North Broad should be on the Do Not Resuscitate list. Like Logan or Nicetown train stations, the surrounding neighborhood is an urban wasteland.

If anything, they should abandon North Broad and build a similar station next to Spring Garden station in a neighborhood that is revitalizing itself.

Once a station has under 200 passenger boardings, it's time to cut the life support system and redirect the money towards more worthwhile areas of the system.

Suburban, so you telling me that 30th street station is not policed, you really need to wake up and take a look around you

NorthPennLimited wrote:bottom line, North Broad should be on the Do Not Resuscitate list. Like Logan or Nicetown train stations, the surrounding neighborhood is an urban wasteland.

If anything, they should abandon North Broad and build a similar station next to Spring Garden station in a neighborhood that is revitalizing itself.

Once a station has under 200 passenger boardings, it's time to cut the life support system and redirect the money towards more worthwhile areas of the system.

Instead of cutting off the life support system, the better thing would be trying to make it a busy station again.

Limited-Clear wrote:Suburban, so you telling me that 30th street station is not policed, you really need to wake up and take a look around you

no, I'm telling you the sealed underground tunnel is not policed at 30th st. that's why you seal it in the first place which is a better solution than destruction.

NorthPennLimited wrote:bottom line, North Broad should be on the Do Not Resuscitate list. Like Logan or Nicetown train stations, the surrounding neighborhood is an urban wasteland.

If anything, they should abandon North Broad and build a similar station next to Spring Garden station in a neighborhood that is revitalizing itself.

Once a station has under 200 passenger boardings, it's time to cut the life support system and redirect the money towards more worthwhile areas of the system.

first make the mind bogglingly stupid decision to remove island platforms which leads to a dramatic reduction in service, then people stop riding, then you abandon. in west chester you stop maintaining service, it's unreliable, its reduced, ridership drops, then you claim there's no ridership. maybe amtrak should terminate trains at newark, then eliminate the nec when ridership drops off. at one point they abandoned spring garden, now it makes sense again/ gee, certainly seems like destroying long term assets unnecessarily when you don't know the futute is short sighted. I don't disagree that SEPTA should more aggressively "abandon" stations but preserving them, particularly in the case of a place like north broad, makes far more sense than destroying them.
http://septa.org/reports/pdf/asp14.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
there are more than 30 stations that have fewer than 200 boardings OR alightings (more if you just look at boardings). the most heavily ridden of those is bridesburg, pennlyn, and folcroft which would be eliminated. This would save SEPTA an enormous amount of capital (likely $10 million to $30 million each right in ADA work right?). worse, there are eight stations on septa's own list which never get eliminated. 3of them are city stations (angora, 49th st, and highland) while 5 are in the suburbs (eddington, new britain, eddystone, del val college. angora, link belt, and eddington are the three worst in the system. in the longer term, rather than simply eliminating them, a rational plan to consolidate or improve performance should be designed. for example, if I lived in west philly the only reason to take the train would be to go to west chester or if the train continued on somewhere useful. perhaps angora and 49th could be consolidated into one 52nd st station, or maybe one new station at the unversity of the sciences.

Push/Pull Master wrote: Instead of cutting off the life support system, the better thing would be trying to make it a busy station again.

each one is different I'd think. what is the next closest station? what are the connections, what are the reasons ridership is low, etc. I definitely think north broad could play a much larger role in moving people from north philly to norristown rather than shuffling everyone to wissahickon where they can sit in traffic on the schuylkill.

Ok so you think sealing and not having a police force in the vicinity means it will just stay sealed, yeah right!!!! They can seal 30th and not worry because there is a constant police force in the area, north broad would get a passing glance if they are lucky from the street overhead.

I actually agree with you that septa should aggressively try to increase ridership, but where are they going to pull it from, their own bus routes? Where people are paying cheaper fares for a bus they won't want to ride the train at a more expensive cost just because the station looks pretty, moreover what's your plan for keeping the current riders happy (not that they currently are), all you reopened stations and extra service makes the current system slow down.

As I said I do agree with you, but it's a jungle to get though and make sense of, one positive will without doubt have a negative elsewhere.

If septa had a rival in the city then they might have a reason to actively change, but right now they hold all the cards, so why change anything (that at least is what it seems like)

As was mentioned the biggest reason would be easier reverse rides to Fox Chase, Norristown and a better connection to North Philadelphia. I'm not saying SEPTA should go ahead and just do it but it would be worth going for a grant similar to what was given for Wayne Junction.

no matter what little amount of money you want to spend at it, once you start here come the elevators or the ramps to new full length ADA platforms.

The "little money" should have been spent on the old station in 1992. Back then leaving it as is without an ADA-athon would have been permissible. Now it would be anything but little.