Why no Regional Rail ticket machines at 30th Street Station

a simple agreement with Amtrak and you would be able to buy tickets at quiktraks and maybe even on their app. of course, SEPTA might even have to consider abandoning the antiquated zone system.
SEPTA, in its infinite knowledge, has decided it's better to stick it to its current customers than grow the business.

amtrakhogger wrote: I can't see how hard it is buy new TVM's since most other transit agencies use them (i.e NJT, Path, LIRR, etc.) The equipment is pretty much off the shelf these days.

Not even off the shelf - because the NJT machines literally sell SEPTA tickets all you need to do is buy a few machines off them.

To be fair, some credit is due to the bright person who called up NJTransit and got the agreement to sell tickets to Philly on all NJT machines. I cant imagine having to arrive in Trenton and then run off to a ticket line.

I wonder if there are any agencies in the country with more than 1 rail line that dont have TVMs.

Suburban Station wrote:SEPTA, in its infinite knowledge, has decided it's better to stick it to its current customers than grow the business.

Spot on. It's unbelievable how many of their policies are focused on extracting every last dime from existing passengers rather than attracting new riders:

- Limited access to tokens => more transit riders pay the one-way cash fare
- No TVMs => more RRD surcharges collected
- The highest transfer fee in the country
- 50¢ surcharge on the NHSL
- Gates being installed at CC stations
- NO streamlining of fares as part of the Key implementation

Can't tell you how many times I've seen people try to buy tokens from the cashiers at the booths at my namesake 34th Street Station, only to be told rudely by the cashiers that they don't sell tokens, and there are no token machines at the station. Nearest one is down on Chestnut St. in Drexel's student center. This makes no sense to me, why have a cashier if all they do is give out transfers? Why not let them sell tokens so people could actually ride the El? Or install a machine at the station? All they have is those stupid Septa Key machines that say "Testing, testing" on them but nothing is actually being tested.

From SEPTA's Sales Locations List:

19104 | 34th Street (MFL) Station | 34th & Market Sts., Subway Level
Mon-Fri 7:00a-7:15p Sat-Sun 5:00a-6:45p | Fares available: TPC12

The cashiers are supposed to sell tokens (but you would have to buy 2, 5, or 10) at 34th St during the above hours. But, how many average riders would know that they have to ask for at least TWO?

Have you contacted SEPTA Customer Service to report that the cashiers are refusing to sell tokens?

MichaelBug wrote:Have you contacted SEPTA Customer Service to report that the cashiers are refusing to sell tokens?

The whole mess ended up in court many years ago. SEPTA supposedly agreed that at MFSE/BSS stations without token machines, cashiers would be required to let riders to pay the token price in cash. Adherence lasted about 5 nanoseconds.

I spent over an hour on the phone with Jason Laughlin at the Inky, along with sending him a write-up describing all sorts of fare-related issues. He promised to dig further in the SEPTA's dirt ... of course not one word has been printed.

What's funny about all this is that I keep telling everyone I know in the NYC/Long Island area that New York's MTA/LIRR/Metro-North/NYCTA is a class act compared to SEPTA or MBTA in Boston. But no one believes it! LOL After all the LIRR is the railroad everyone loves to hate along with our MTA. They don't realize how lucky we are to have commuter-rail with all high platforms, and TVM's at virtually every station on both the Subway and Commuter-rail. And free transfers between NYC subway and busses too with your Metrocard. They should try commuting in Boston or Philly for a year and see how they like MBTA and SEPTA.

In timetables from the late 1990s, rail TVMs were known as "Fast Fare" machines and stations equipped with machines were noted with a $ symbol.

It looks as if septa does not list the times the cashiers take their breaks.

The one time in my adult life I hopped the faregate was at 34th St about eight years ago. It's wonderful entering a busy subway station mid morning with nothing but Jacksons in the pocket and not being able to purchase a fare. The only booth open selling tokens did have someone inside, but taped to the window was a very crude cardboard sign that looked like it was written by an epileptic kindergartener that said something like "On break 15 minutes". I totally get break-time, I'm a huge fan, and I really wanted to honor it, but time was ticking and I could not help but ask what time the break started. The only response I got was a grunt and a point to the sign. I then assumed that the applicable times were incrypted in the cardboard and sharpie hieroglyphics. Since I could not translate and refused to pay a $20 one way cash fare, I waited until the next el pulled in, hopped over, flew down the steps, and jumped into the car hoping that calls to the police by the cashier would be after break time.

It was nice to re-live an act that I have not taken part in since my West Catholic days, but to this day, still cannot believe septa's fare system.

MichaelBug wrote:From SEPTA's Sales Locations List:

19104 | 34th Street (MFL) Station | 34th & Market Sts., Subway Level
Mon-Fri 7:00a-7:15p Sat-Sun 5:00a-6:45p | Fares available: TPC12

The cashiers are supposed to sell tokens (but you would have to buy 2, 5, or 10) at 34th St during the above hours. But, how many average riders would know that they have to ask for at least TWO?

Have you contacted SEPTA Customer Service to report that the cashiers are refusing to sell tokens?

SEPTA conductors cut hundreds of dollars of cash each day. On the weekends they can do $1,000 and miss many fares daily. It's a joke not having ticket machines at all stations. The success of other commuter agencies with machines is apparent. SEPTA's new fare system is still a work in progress for the railroad division. We will see.

I remember being on a weekend Paoli train in to CC that stopped at Villanova and picked up 50+ passengers. With close SEPTA station spacing, the conductors barely had any time to get a fare or two between stations. Having a TVM like other rail agencies would have avoided this problem and recovered a ton of fares. I'm sure this is not some isolated incident.

alewifebp wrote:I remember being on a weekend Paoli train in to CC that stopped at Villanova and picked up 50+ passengers. With close SEPTA station spacing, the conductors barely had any time to get a fare or two between stations. Having a TVM like other rail agencies would have avoided this problem and recovered a ton of fares. I'm sure this is not some isolated incident.

Alewife: Having a TVM may have helped collect money that would have been missed on board by the train crew-
but what about the sold tickets? Would they had gone uncollected anyway and be able to be used again?
(SEPTA RRD tickets are valid for six months from the date of sale)

Everyone:

I noticed this topic lauding the convenience of having ample ticket vending machines on SEPTA RRD and I will add
that TVMs are NOT always the answer. They can be a good supplement to a staffed ticket office - but to replace a
manned facility I beg to differ. When they are reliable they can be fine but when they are not...problems arise.

First - TVMs are expensive - each machine costs thousands of dollars and with that investment they have to be
watched and protected. That alone can only add more costs to a expensive proposition.

Second-When there are problems they can be quite troublesome. One example I recall is of the discovery of credit
or debit card skimmers that were being placed by an organized theft ring on LIRR TVMs a couple of years ago.
The MTA Police investigated and a number of arrests and prosecutions were made.

Third-The MTA and NJT has instituted a minimum of a $5 penalty for not using a working TVM before boarding.
How would SEPTA RRD riders deal with a penalty charge that high since what they are paying now is small in
comparison? LIRR and MNCR on board penalties are between $5.75 and $6.50 more compared to station fare.

SEPTA learned the hard way when they had TVMs that they needed to be maintained and secured in good manner
and hopefully they have learned from their past experiences when they install the equipment at RRD stations to
support the Key system. If there are any significant problems concerning reliability or security riders could revolt
in some manner or even shun this new technology. The current weekly/monthly pass system has the advantages
of unlimited use at any time - the new Key will have "caps" instituted on all transit use. Will RRD be similar?

Technology can be good in many ways - but is not always the answer in all cases.
MACTRAXX

in this day and age the ability to purchase the fare on your phone is more important than TVM's as well as the ability to accept cards for on board fares

SS and Everyone:

Metra in the Chicago area in the past year began offering the Ventra app for a variety of ticket types including
Monthly passes that stay on your smartphone to be available for use on board. It looks to have been successful:

http://metrarail.com/metra/en/home/util ... -ride.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

With that thought there is still those who will try to beat this new system using a counterfeit ticket photo on their
smartphone - a sharp-eyed train crew member spotted it and the user was arrested and charged with theft.

http://metrarail.com/metra/en/home/util ... icket.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I would rather have the physical paper (or plastic) ticket in my possession instead of an electronic facisimile.
That is just my personal preference.

LIRR and MNCR have tested limited applications of devices that would allow credit/debit card use on board.
Keep in mind those using cards on board are still subject to the MTA on board penalty surcharges of between
$5.75 to $6.50 more then actual station fares. Station fare is only charged on board from a limited number of
stations that have either no ticket office or TVM available for advance purchase.

JS: Most Metra lines do not have any TVMs. The only one with a significant number in use is the Metra Electric
routes which in many cases date from when this line had turnstiles - and has used TVMs for many years.

The big difference is that Metra's $3 on board penalty is only charged when there is an open ticket office that is
available before boarding - which is what SEPTA RRD actually should be doing. Before the recent-years fare type
changes there was a $2 penalty enforced when a ticket office was available or a working TVM was in use.

In the cases of the TVMs that penalty charge was almost never enforced because most train crew members
knew how unreliable the SEPTA TVMs were - especially in their final years before they were withdrawn.

MACTRAXX