Why is Wawa expansion so slow and costly??

The wcrr owns ex septa (reading) mu cars so I'm 100pct sure that it was a rdg mu car. Also the yard in media will be closed once the line is extended to wawa with the yard opening in lenni. The yard in media and soon lenni will not be doing any heavy maintanence. Media yard now doesn't do heavy maintanence only quick repairs like brakes, lights, etc

Thanks for the info Budd. That explains the extra costs. I don't know if that was included in the original cost estimate or not. Since the breakdowns aren't available to the public, its hard to determine what is being spent where.

Hey rail is expensive. My understanding is that the line has only served rail operator training vehicles and gravel trains operating at a snails pace. When I walked the line back in 1989 it was in a horrible state of repair then. Twenty years later it is probably a slow order fiesta.

I would imagine that the entire track bed and catenary system (originally underpowered on the West Chester Branch east of Elwyn) needs to be completely rebuilt from the ground up. There are a lot of hydrological issues in that area since it passes by several creeks such as Chester Creek. Also keep in mind that an entirely new PTC-ready signal system must be installed. The old Wawa station area was more or less a forest of pioneering trees with major flood issues. That being said, a major component of the scope involves construction of an end-of-line ADA accessible park-and-ride station that can 1) serve projected parking demand; 2) accommodate shuttles or buses; 3) not be creepy for commuters at night; 4) not retain too much water; 5) provide for site access road elements which includes traffic mitigation measures at adjacent intersections; and 6) provide for some sort of end-of-line terminal facilities for rail vehicles and crews. Lastly, were vehicles included?

The bottom line is that all this adds up pretty quickly. There is a lot of process but also a lot of engineering that has been fed small packets of capital funding for several years. Hence the slow and costly. Welcome to reality.

So without beating the punchlines out of the dead horse we all know and love that is Septa, they wouldn't be making the end-of-line investments at Wawa if they had near-term plans to reinstate service beyond Wawa, correct? It wouldn't make sense to build each of that if they're going to extend out a station at a time...

khecht wrote:If it's an ancient MU in ex-PRR territory, it almost has to be an MP-54, no?

Not necessarily. West Chester RR operates several ex-RDG Blueliners as coaches on their line.

http://www.westchesterrr.com/

cpontani wrote:So without beating the punchlines out of the dead horse we all know and love that is Septa, they wouldn't be making the end-of-line investments at Wawa if they had near-term plans to reinstate service beyond Wawa, correct? It wouldn't make sense to build each of that if they're going to extend out a station at a time...

You're probably right, but I don't think they'd build a park-and-ride, yard and bus loop at every station even if they were going to restore service past Wawa. They're planning the bus loop for connections with the 111, and the park and ride is probably to attract the western Delco suburbs. They'd have to build ADA platforms anywhere if they were ever to restore service further west, but not with the bells and whistles of a park-and-ride, except for maybe near the old Westtown Station at 926. My one glimmer of hope is that they're raising and rehabbing the bridge over Baltimore Pike, but in all reality it's probably just for a layover spot.

I still wonder about the yard though. Has SEPTA been unsatisfied with Media Yard and looking to replace it for some time, or are they that desperate for parking at Media?

Is it safe to assume that the station will be south of Baltimore Pike? Assuming it is, since that bridge is adjacent to the station, you mind as well rehab it. Are they doing two tracks through there? Just one? Is there a need to switch from one track to another at Wawa?

I don't know how old the Media Yard is, nor know a whole lot about it. But if Septa is considering replacing it, perhaps there's constraints there that would justify it being replaced. As far as parking goes, is there anywhere on the R3 that has an abundance of available parking? Or do you keep both Wawa and Lenni yards, and keep more equipment out in the burbs as the overall fleet expands?

The yard at Media is not very big. There are about five MU sets that lay over there during the night and weekends. The issue is that there is virtually no extra parking at Media, nor any of the stations along the West Chester Line for that matter and they all fill to capacity relatively quickly.

I still can't understand why they are spending so much money to extend the line just a few miles, and one station, when the line keeps going to West Chester, which could greatly benefit from the train.

Septa has wanted to get rid of the Media yard for a very long time. Its not very big and Septa would like to be able to store more cars then what Media yard can handle.They also want to rid of the yard when the Wawa extension opens because they want to expand parking. Parking in Media is limited and Media itself it getting annoyed with people parking illegally on city streets.Once the Wawa extension opens, train storage will be at Lenni and even after Lenni opens, it will just be for car storage, not for heavy maintanence.I dont think the shop that was built in Lenni was by Septa and only used for training purposes. It was Septa's original Choo Choo U. The only heavy maintanence yards on Septa is only Powelton, Roberts, Frazer and to a degree Wayne Electric. Wayne electric really only deals with transformer issues.

BuddSilverliner269 wrote:The only heavy maintanence yards on Septa is only Powelton, Roberts, Frazer and to a degree Wayne Electric. Wayne electric really only deals with transformer issues.

Hey you forgot the biggest one in Overbrook.

Oh geez. I forgot that and I can't believe it. Haha

I think the project timeline was impacted by Middletown Township and uncertainty about adjacent land development, which was to provide access to the Baltimore Pike.

BuddSilverliner269 wrote:Septa has wanted to get rid of the Media yard for a very long time. Its not very big and Septa would like to be able to store more cars then what Media yard can handle.They also want to rid of the yard when the Wawa extension opens because they want to expand parking. Parking in Media is limited and Media itself it getting annoyed with people parking illegally on city streets.Once the Wawa extension opens, train storage will be at Lenni and even after Lenni opens, it will just be for car storage, not for heavy maintanence.

Hmm, I like the expanding in parking, having been one of those illegal parkers, but I wonder what will happen to Media-bound trains. I've ridden trains that have terminated and originated in Media. I rode a train home that pulled into the tracks next to the parking lot for a layover. I assume that Media-originating trains come from those tracks. When SEPTA reconfigure the tracks in Media, will they keep a layover track or will the end of the Media yard mean the end of trains that originate and end in Media? Or is my assumption about Media-originating trains laying over wrong?

Anyone know anything about how many cars SEPTA is hoping Lenni yard can store?

greenej wrote:I think the project timeline was impacted by Middletown Township and uncertainty about adjacent land development, which was to provide access to the Baltimore Pike.

Correct. We Middletown-ers wanted nothing to do with the original town center plan on the Franklin Mint site, train station or not.

I don't see why they would turn trains at Media anymore once the yard was moved to Lenni/Wawa. I suspect the only reason they originate trains from Media now is because there is no place to lay over at Elwyn.

Jon