Update on coaches masquerading as business class

It's been about six months since the latest banter about this irksome topic, so I am looking for an update for a looming NY-NC trip on either the Palmetto or Carolinian. I'm accustomed to the Empire Service and Vermonter where business class is clearly a superior product to coach. I was surprised to ride the Pennsylvanian last summer to discover that business class was a coach masquerading as business class. Last spring, someone on this site reported the Palmetto situation is even worse, with business class being inferior to coach:

Quote re Palmetto in mid-2014
So in Coach class, you get slightly more legroom, slightly bigger windows and a slightly nicer seat with legrest.
Unquote

Can anyone report on whether this perverse anomaly still holds true on the Palmetto (and perhaps Carolinian) or whether things have improved? It would seem strange if Amtrak is able to persist in selling the inferior product for a higher price.
Thanks for any updates.

The situation remains the same.
Business class on both trains is the same. Coach is what is different. The Palmetto (and Pennsylvanian) use a mix of long distance and short distance coaches(usually 1 short and 2-3 long), along with a short distance business class car. The Carolinian uses only short distance cars.

The business class cars on the Empire service and Vermonter were formerly first class cars displaced from such service by the Acela trains. so while the Maple leaf has long distance coaches as well(usually with 1 or 2 short distance cars, but not always) the business class is substantially nicer than coach anyway. The Vermonter and Empire trains (as well as the overnight 66/67) have the biggest difference between business class and coach as they use short distance coach cars with former Metroliner first class as BC.

In my opinion, Amtrak would do best to put in an order for 50 or so Viewliner coaches(Perhaps they could even negotiate such as an option), and cascade 50 Amfleet IIs to be the dedicated coach fleet for the North East Day trains, with 20 or so becoming full 2 by 1 Business class cars.

R30A wrote: In my opinion, Amtrak would do best to put in an order for 50 or so Viewliner coaches(Perhaps they could even negotiate such as an option), and cascade 50 Amfleet IIs to be the dedicated coach fleet for the North East Day trains, with 20 or so becoming full 2 by 1 Business class cars.

Agreed! I am a regular rider of the Carolinian and generally find BC to be less desirable to coach due to 1) fewer seating options (its only one car and a large number of seats are usually reserved for '2 or more') and 2) an attendant who often likes to assign seats. Since I can't always choose where I sit and all I get is the newspaper and free softdrinks/hot drinks (but not Iced tea for some deeply mysteriously reason) BC really isn't worth it.

I have ridden Via Business Class several times recently and find that service (roughly comparable to Accela first but much cheaper) to be very worthwhile (assigned seats, often 2+1 seating, airline style food / drink and wine brought to your seat). I happily give Amtrak lots more $$$ if they would only create a real business class.

About 5 years ago for some reason the Vermonter regularly had business class cars in service as coaches. They had duct tape over the "Businessclass" near the doors which I assume was to keep passengers from getting confused. Not sure why this happened.

Those former 1st Class Amfleet cars with the 2 and 1 seating, whether half Dinette or all 1st Class, are still Food Service cars, and are sometimes used instead of an all table Cafe or Dinette car, even in trains which have a full Business Class car! So, a few lucky passengers get 1st Class seating for less than Business Class prices.

JimBoylan wrote:Those former 1st Class Amfleet cars with the 2 and 1 seating, whether half Dinette or all 1st Class, are still Food Service cars, and are sometimes used instead of an all table Cafe or Dinette car, even in trains which have a full Business Class car! So, a few lucky passengers get 1st Class seating for less than Business Class prices.

Yea, I'm always on the lookout on the corridor for those cars. The only downside is all the foot traffic to/from the cafe (I assume when the car was used as first class it was at the front/rear of the train to eliminate this problem)

So I've noticed that for the last week or so trains 66/67 have been running with a full length business class car and a regular cafe. Anyone know if this is a permanent change? I'm less likely to spring for business class on those trains if the 2-1 leather seating is a thing of the past.

Observed 381 ( 24) this morning from the Barber Shop, and noted the consist was three Superliners.

Apparently Business Class is being offered with one half of the Upper Level of a (edit to correct) 350XX Cafe-Coach being "designated" Business Class.

Oh well, I'm sure an airline could take an aircraft configured all-Coach, put a sign saying "First Class" over a number of seats, and people would still pony up for them.

Didn't PT Barnum have a phrase for those folk?

Just to nitpick, the Cafe coaches are all in the 350XX series. The 310XX series is Coach Baggage.

It is entirely possible that one car of the train is actually substantially nicer than the other two. Some superliners are configured for corridor use, most are LD. If the other two both have less legroom and no legrests, calling the LD car business class is not unreasonable. That said, I doubt such is the case.

To further nitpick, the Barnum quote I assume you are referring to was actually not by Barnum. That said, he liked it enough that he did not dispute its attribution to him.

Matt Johnson wrote:So I've noticed that for the last week or so trains 66/67 have been running with a full length business class car and a regular cafe. Anyone know if this is a permanent change? I'm less likely to spring for business class on those trains if the 2-1 leather seating is a thing of the past.

It is not a permanent change.

ThirdRail7 wrote:

Matt Johnson wrote:So I've noticed that for the last week or so trains 66/67 have been running with a full length business class car and a regular cafe. Anyone know if this is a permanent change? I'm less likely to spring for business class on those trains if the 2-1 leather seating is a thing of the past.

It is not a permanent change.

Thanks, I know those trains seem to draw random consists (usually but not always including a baggage car) but I've seen this new consist a few times now so just curious.

Of course, there are those times when one can snag one of these seats in coach on 94/95.

Mr. R30A, I stand corrected; interesting to learn:

http://blogcritics.org/q-who-said-theres-a-sucker/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Now regarding Superliner configuration of Coaches, be they 31XXX or 34XXX, the 31's were delivered with a short haul configuration; 84 Upper Level seats without leg rests. However, I believe all have, in subsequent rebuilds, been converted to the same Upper Level configuration and with leg rests.

Amtrak could have a REAL premium service with the 2-1 leather seat Amfleet business class cars. They should be the Acela First Class equivalent, offering at-seat meals etc. on select corridor trains - be it NEC, Empire, or the long distance day trains. At one time I thought this was going to be experimented with. Instead Amtrak would often run what ever they had for say the Clocker service. I used to LOVE to get these brand new re-conditioned cars on the Clockers!

Today while shoveling hopefully for the last time the latest round of White stuff, observed 381 ( 26 ), Carl Sandberg, with a 310XX Sightseer in the consist. Who knows where the Business Class, if even offered, was accommodated.

What a waste of equipment, but then when you live in a scrounge environment such as Amtrak here in Chicago, nothing that runs is a waste.

I would hope with the removal of one Lounge from the Auto Train consist, the one Sightseer assigned to the AT pool has come out here, but then, I wouldn't be surprised to learn that it remains with the AT.

jp1822 wrote:Amtrak could have a REAL premium service with the 2-1 leather seat Amfleet business class cars. They should be the Acela First Class equivalent, offering at-seat meals etc. on select corridor trains - be it NEC, Empire, or the long distance day trains. At one time I thought this was going to be experimented with. Instead Amtrak would often run what ever they had for say the Clocker service. I used to LOVE to get these brand new re-conditioned cars on the Clockers!

I remember when Amtrak actually offered REAL First Class service on its NE Corridor Non-Metroliner trains. You did get 2-1 seating AND meals served at your seat. I was always willing to pay the extra charge, and since the base fare was less than the Metroliner, it was worth it for me if I was willing to take a slightly longer travel time from Metropark to Washington. If I remember correctly, the First Class Accommodation Charge was the same as the Metroliner, so Amtrak got the same "fee" for the upgrade. Why did they stop it?