Twin State Railroad

p42thedowneaster wrote: ↑Wed Apr 10, 2024 2:00 pm So this purchase would include operations between St J and Whitefield? Thus creating a direct VTR-SLR interchange at Groveton...

Not really, considering the NHCR operating lease only covers to the Connecticut River, and CSXT owns the rest to St. Johnsbury.

A 50 mile bridge route (with no online or even potential online customers) to interchange with another bridge route sure seems like an odd business proposition...

This is a surprising development; this has the potential to be something bigger than what we are seeing on the surface. Of course, they will have to negotiate with CSX but technically speaking the rail line between Whitefield, NH and St. Johnsbury, VT is not abandoned. It would be an enormous investment to rehab the line, but would the investment be worth it?

NHV 669 wrote: ↑Wed Apr 10, 2024 3:03 pm
Not really, considering the NHCR operating lease only covers to the Connecticut River, and CSXT owns the rest to St. Johnsbury.

Its to Gilman.

Found the document acknowledging such to MP 111.57 in Gilman/Lunenburg. Point being, it's 27+ miles of poor track (20 they don't own), just to reach 23 more to get to an interchange, with nothing to serve over any of it.

Purchasing the NHCR is a lot of work (and money) for zero traffic beyond seasonal equipment moves to CSRX. I’m wondering what’s going on behind the scenes that validates such a purchase.

The other option for traffic growth is the Beecher Falls line, but that’s mainly just the propane transload and car repair shop. Interested to see how this plays out and what transpires to make this move a reasonable investment.

I thought the NEGS purchase was strange but this one, this one is even more strange. At least with NEGS, there's still the potential for the aggregate businesses but NHCR!?
Could they be gearing up for for a system expansion between St. Johnsbury and Groveton? There's no business anywhere between the two points, but could an interchange agreement be lucrative enough?
The rail trail folks are going to have a nosebleed over this one.

Rail in New England has been changing ever since the CSX takeover of Pan Am. Combine that with other changes in Northern NH (CSRR’s rampant expansion, SLR’s track rehab) maybe there’s something they see that we’re not.

CSRX hasn't really expanded though, they've simply added more equipment on the same amount of trackage, while running fewer Mountaineer trips (and trips/specials to Crawfords and beyond overall) than they did before Covid.

SLR was already a 30-35 mph railroad in many spots, little has changed on that while traffic has continued to decrease.

I'll agree with Brian above, it's an odd purchase, especially with the overall decrease in traffic on the WACR, and the fact that VRS has bought two railroads in the last two years, but hasn't raised its pay rates for those working there...

I meant the equipment additions, the cruise trains starting this summer, tentative plans to move the Flying Yankee up to the CSRX, offers to expand to the east and south, all are showing a growth related mindset with management. More just using it as an example of how rail companies of all sorts are changing in the area.

The SLR upgrade was apparently less about track speeds and more about bringing the weight restrictions in-line within the 286,000 lbs of modern railcars.

I feel like it’s poor business sense to purchase railroads and not have a plan of some kind to grow the business, so I’m excited to see what they do with the NHCR.

I feel like it’s poor business sense to purchase railroads and not have a plan of some kind to grow the business, so I’m excited to see what they do with the NHCR.

Clearly VRS is making this purchase as part of a total revamp to serve Carroll Concrete, which has locations adjacent to the ROW in Columbia, Littleton, and St. Johnsbury. They're already a customer of NECR in West Lebanon.

(hopefully it's obvious that I'm joking)

Funny indeed, but honestly not the most unbelievable thing I've ever heard anyone propose for the line.

I believe the shipments to West Lebanon are trucked up to all of the points mentioned above these days.

The silliest one I've heard so far was a bridge between SLR and NECR, when both roads are between CSXT and a CN connection, and carry plenty of bridge traffic themselves already.

SLR is a skeleton of what it was 5 years ago, which is the direct result of the paper industry falling out (SLR used to move a lot of paper to Canada) and the CSX takeover of Pan Am which has sent most of the bridge traffic to the Manessa Line. The US side of the railroad is pretty much dead, they are probably moving less than 100 cars per week and are running road jobs just twice a week. I think if they didn't have the LPG business which is a huge revenue source, they would have dumped the US side. It doesn't help that the US customer service reps actively discourage and drive away new customers. The Canadian side still runs 5 days a week and has a ton of business, but the US side is dead.

I also spoke to a friend who knows Ed Jefferies, I was told he offered the railroad to VTR , which will allow him to retire. So I dont expect any new developments traffic wise.

Yes, I meant the majority of their carloads are bridge traffic, besides what they get at LJ for the online customers in that area. Sometimes it's 3x a week, but definitely around 100 or so cars like you mention.

I saw someone else mention retirement as well, I can't imagine Ed has much of a staff with how barebones the operation is.

Well, this begs the next question: why say yes? Again, just seems like abysmal business sense if they don’t see any opportunities (which I doubt is the case, feel like VTR is smarter than that).