Transit Strike Modified Regional Rail Schedules

I am old enough to remember using the Reading and PRR commuter lines and one thing I do recall is that these railroad stepped up to the plate during city transit strikes and provided extra, frequent service WITHIN the city limits. There is an argument for redundancy in infrastructure and if Septa had not been so anxious not to just close but to destroy under utilized stations they could be reopened now. There were plenty of folks who used these earlier systems to get around the city and still would if the stations were available. Wissiniming had a faithful walk on clientele who could not walk to Tacony or Bridesburg and if you think that is an easy walk try it some January morning.

I am certainly not a SEPTA advocate. I agree that those former inner city RRD stops did serve a greater good for inner city residents, particularly in light of a strike; but, I have to say that SEPTA was justified in closing the stations that it closed. Wissonoming was an underperforming stop, just as those others previously mentioned, that maybe boarded one person every other train. Lamokin, Fishers, Nicetown, Logan, you name it. If anything, including those stops as inservice passenger stations only DELAYED the trains inbound and were a nuisance outbound. The RRD is a commuter railroad after all and it just makes sense to close underperforming stations, especially when they pick up maybe 1 or 2 people during rush hour. It is unfortunate for those VERY few who used it, but it is a necessary evil. Right now, as an example, an inbound R1 goes from Fern Rock to Market East Station in 12 minutes with a PADDED schedule making LOCAL stops; an EXPRESS on the BSL from Fern Rock takes twice as long going directly to 8th and Market. Now could you imagine if that same R1 was stopping at Logan, Nicetown, Tioga, and North Broad just to pickup maybe 1 or 2 passengers at most total at those stops. Not realistic.

I am continually disapointed in DVARP (of which I am a member) advocating closing stations to speed service and increase ridership and ignoring the fact that the stations being closed are all within city limits, and serve a primarially poor and minority population. This sort of advocacy becomes a city/suburbs type of fight because DVARP ought to be advocating some "out of the box" thinking to speed service, not simply cutting service.

for example, the speeds between temple and wayne junction are painfully slow. SEPTA replaced the old Reading signal system in kind without making any plans for running trains faster or closer together (both were possible) and wound up with a brand-new 1930s railroad when they were done. This section of the railroad is crying for improvement (which admittedly costs money) but could save minutes the way that cutting stops does and would still allow urban residents to have their local train station.

I'm not an EE (though I am a mech E) but I think that it would be fairly straightforward to rig an electrical "flag" system similar to that on the P&W that would alert a train to a necessary stop so that it could begin slowing down. No signal, no stop- time saved. I believe that the worry of "running hot" would not be a big problem as SEPTA trains operate below track speed much of the time and could make up time lost stoping at flag stops by running at track speed to "catch up".

Okay, there are other issues that would have to be worked out, but they could be if there was a desire to do so.

What is unsaid in these discussions is the implication that suburban residents deserve to get to where they need to go faster than city residents. For example, 49th street and Angora are frequent targets for elimination. Neither have station houses, and I don't believe either have parking. Angora is also reasonably close to the #34 and 49th street literally underneath the #13 making both attractive to cut from a "duplicate service" perspective. But it takes 8 minutes for me to ride the R3 from 49th street to 30th street station (where I connect with Amtrak each morning) and it takes about 15 minutes on the trolley (I know the schedule says 10..it is wrong) plus I then have to run across 30th street to the station (takes another 2 minutes perhaps) to get to the same destination. Is it worth cutting 2 minutes from the running time of the train (assuming the schedule really picks up 1 minute per station) for taking another ten minutes from my morning? In other words, why should I have to go slow for a very small benefit to a suburbanite? The trains already primarially run for the suburban ridership - any city residents that ride are simply a bonus to offset the running costs of deadheading equipment between the city and subruban terminal to ferry more county residents to or from the city. This mindset is reflected in the lack of express service for reverse commuters I want to get to work fast too, you know. I simply ride Amtrak between 30th and Paoli, because the train is 30 minutes faster, MUCH more comfortable and costs $.65 more.

Okay, I'm in rant mode now. Close more city stations, and the railroad is going to be less attractive to Philadelphians who already resent the fact that their suburban neighbors get "nicer" service even though we provide the vast majority of the ridership.

my two urban cents.

There is no doubt that there have been several station closings in the city limits of the years on the RRD. Once again, I generally do not agree with SEPTA's decision making; but, I think that this time SEPTA is in the right. Weak passenger stations that GENERALLY don't pick up or discharge passengers, even during rush hour a handful at best, are overall counterproductive. It is unfortunate, but true. It costs money to maintain those stations (lighting, cleaning, snow removal, etc.). I think that the speeds between Wayne Junction and Market East are so painfully slow because of the amount of undergrade bridges and the amount of traffic that goes through the area (SEPTA's so-called mainline), not to mention the frequent maintainence that goes with higher speeds. Flag stops are just NOT desirable for train scheduling, and don't justify maintaining consistently weak passenger stations. As far as Angora and parking, its like a catch-22. Would SEPTA invest in a parking area at a station where very few people board or detrain; or would SEPTA take the financial gamble (budget crisis?) of providing a parking lot in the hopes of attracting passengers that hitherto have not arrived yet. I am also an inner city resident, so I understand the frustration. Painfully, I have to admit that SEPTA may be reluctant to upgrade a station that hardly anyone uses without some financial incentive (capital money). How long do you think it would take for the kids at Angora terrace to break the plexiglass out of a station shelter? As a person who has operated trains on the West Chester branch (aka R3 Media/Elwyn line), I can attest to the strange things that go on at certain stations at nighttime, and Angora is a prime suspect. Reverse commute express service is also a plus, but the scheduling, particularly on the Reading side, is a problem. One break down between Glenside and Fern Rock and SEPTA RRD is a disaster for at LEAST 30min.

I'm right behind you jsc. Not to mention the city kicks in alot more subsidy for the RR than the burbs do.

Everyone misses the point though---during rush hour, when the suburbanites don't want to lose a precious minute or be bothered with stopping, not every train needs to stop at North Broad, Nicetown, FJ, etc. Hourly service would be sufficient. And it would make more sense to have the service on the outbound side during morning rush than inbound. Remember, reverse commuters. Its the poor city people that are going to the burbs to work in the McDonalds, Best Buys, etc.

I can only dream how nice it would be to have a station at 9th-Girard to connect with the 15, which would shave lots of time on trips to Warminster, West Trenton, etc. SEPTA's RR now is a one-size fits all RR. Its only purpose is to move people in and out of downtown, to the immediate suburbs only. It needs a change, the people in the city are paying for it, they deserve access to it to---its public-not private transit.[/quote]

Everyone misses the point though---during rush hour, when the suburbanites don't want to lose a precious minute or be bothered with stopping, not every train needs to stop at North Broad, Nicetown, FJ, etc. Hourly service would be sufficient. And it would make more sense to have the service on the outbound side during morning rush than inbound. Remember, reverse commuters. Its the poor city people that are going to the burbs to work in the McDonalds, Best Buys, etc.

I never thought of it that way, but that's probably your best argument, and not a bad one. When I first started riding the Norristown line to school, it still stopped at Allegheny, but only 2 or 3 people got on. But far more people get on when i'm coming home in the morning because i only had one early morning class.

[quote="R3 Rider"]The Cornwells Heights shuttle? All it does is loop through the parking lot again and again! Yeah, that'll really get folks where they're going...

Even more incredibly, the Cornwells Heights shuttle has a ROUTE NUMBER!!! Internally, it is designated as Route 312. Call it the only route in SEPTA history to not require a printed schedule, too, LOL!

The LUCY also has a route designator that is used internally at SEPTA: it is Route 316.

kevikens wrote:I don't really want to see a strike as that would really hurt the long suffering riding public but there is a silver lining for rail fans in that if it gets bad enough and lasts long enough Septa will drag out stored equipment and run it, maybe even reopen some city stations (Wissinoming ?) The last time there was a strike back in the late 90's I saw some old MU's with Pennsylvania railroad on the side and remember when it ended, all Septa service, including the commuter trains, was free for a day or two. Great chance to ride the rails and see the whole system for free.

What stored equipment? There isn't any equipment to spare. The old Pennsylvania MP54's have actually been gone since 1981, the Reading Blueliners have been gone since 1990. During the last strike in 1998, the only extra equipment was in the form of a 5-car push-pull set of Boise Budds borrowed from Virginia Railway Express (with an AEM-7 and a Bomber cab car to round out the set). Two Bomber sets did extra trips to Chestnut Hill East and Fox Chase early in the afternoon before returning for their regular assignmants.

SEPTA doesn't have the equipment or manpower to do much in the way of extra trains and trips on Regional Rail. Their 'contingency plan' is a misnomer, since there is really no plan.

It's called: Regional Rail Is Your Only Option And If It Is Not An Option, You Are S.O.L!

kevikens wrote:I am old enough to remember using the Reading and PRR commuter lines and one thing I do recall is that these railroad stepped up to the plate during city transit strikes and provided extra, frequent service WITHIN the city limits. There is an argument for redundancy in infrastructure and if Septa had not been so anxious not to just close but to destroy under utilized stations they could be reopened now. There were plenty of folks who used these earlier systems to get around the city and still would if the stations were available. Wissiniming had a faithful walk on clientele who could not walk to Tacony or Bridesburg and if you think that is an easy walk try it some January morning.

But also bear in mind most of that same clientele is either retired, moved further out into the suburbs, or even deceased.

And, as was stated earlier, most of the stations that have been closed and since demolished had single-digit ridership. SEPTA was also hard-pressed to justify keeping them open back when it was demanded they cut costs any way they could. We can't have it both ways.

While we're talking about speed on the trunk line, SEPTA was supposed to have established a 60-mph maximum speed on the Mainline between Vine and Wayne Junction when Railworks was completed. It has never happened. The biggest restrictions to that speed is the curve north of Temple U station, especially for #4 track, which has the sharp divot at the south end of the station to line up with the main again after serving the island platform. Aside from that, nothing physically that I can see restrains a 60-mph speed except for the sheer volume of traffic, specially at rush hours.

By the way, 49th Street station won't be going anywhere anytime soon, as that has been totally rebuilt from the ground up several years ago. As for Angora, I've noticed that in previous strikes, ridership did take a rise, but as soon as the strikes ended, the new riders went right back to the 34 trolley again....despite the fact that TransPasses are valid to Angora.

jfrey40535 wrote:What they didn't do is add more service to core stations like North Broad and Wayne Junction (all R3's still bypass). And except for Wissinoming, all the closed stations have been leveled (Nicetown, Tioga, Frankford Jct, Frankford, Andalusia, etc.).

What stations have closed since 2002?

Flag stops aren't the solution. Either they're gonna have very few riders per day, in which case it's hard to justify the maintenance and other operating costs for the station, or they're gonna have more riders (1 or two per train), in which case the slowdown to make the stop costs you more riders than you gain.

Now I agree the reverse-commute market is something that could potentially revitalize those in-city stations, but if it were enough to justify reopening the now-closed stations, you'd be seeing a lot more riders at those stations that remain, like North Broad and 49th Street. But we don't. For now the best thing is to keep those stations closed while monitoring the demand at the other stations and responding if and when an opportunity shows up.

Now if there was enough of a market to support those stations, ideally we'd be able to run a mix of express and local trains to provide speed for the outer stations and frequency for the inner stations, but you're not gonna have the density of ridership at the inner stations to make it work unless you really reconfigure the system accordingly, and the city isn't willing to upset even small applecarts, let alone this big one.

Matt Mitchell
(spent a ride home from Harrisburg debating this point with Dick Voith)

Another relevant point about those closed stations, is that in most (if not all) cases there were PUBLIC hearings regarding the decision to close them. I wonder how many of the silent majority actually ATTENDED those hearings and VOICED their outrage. It's one thing to surmise about the potential of re-opening of closed stations; but, people in the local communities surrounding those stations have an obligation to themselves to FIGHT to preserve their little piece of SEPTA. Attend the public hearings, participate in them, write letters, start written petitions, get your local congressman or city councilperson to do their jobs by representing you. These thing are lacking when it comes to providing rail service to poor neighborhoods, along with the poor ridership. If anything, the lack thereof only STRENGHTENS SEPTA's argument for closing them.

Whovian: Many of those folks and, by the way we are not all retired, moved on or dead, are the kind of folks who lack the civic skills you mention that all of us, I suppose, ought to have. Attending public hearings scheduled for working hours is not an option for many people and though we may deplore the lack of civic skills among our working class many people simply do not know how the system works and let's be honest here, even if they did understand the arcane complexities of urban politics how much influence would these people have on Septa's managerial class (a large percentage of whom don't live anywhere near Wayne Junction, Angora or Wissinoming). I maintain that Septa's transit mission includes providing convenient rail transit service WITHIN the city limits. Septa is not the Phila Suburban Transit System but a regional system that includes the city itself. If Septa wants to provide only reduced peak hour service at lightly used stations, ok, but to not only have shut them but then demolished them has been irresponsible and flag service has worked on the P and W. why could it not work elsewhere ?

whovian wrote:Reverse commute express service is also a plus, but the scheduling, particularly on the Reading side, is a problem. One break down between Glenside and Fern Rock and SEPTA RRD is a disaster for at LEAST 30min.

Oh, it goes way beyond Fern Rock. My train last night was 90 minutes late getting me home because someone in front of us pulled down the wires near Newtown Junction. And then to top it off, we spent ten minutes idling about a mile out of Trevose station because some schmuck decided that the railroad tracks were a good place to dump his old air conditioner.

we spent ten minutes idling about a mile out of Trevose station because some schmuck decided that the railroad tracks were a good place to dump his old air conditioner

And we're worried about terrorists? (laughs)

Attending public hearings scheduled for working hours is not an option

Exactly, we're busy spending hours on a bus to get to work because our train station is closed.

Also I might point out, North Broad & North Philly aren't exactly the most inviting train stations either. They lack the charm and easy access that the city subsidized suburban rail stations get. Look at the access to the outbound platform at North Broad. You have to wind yourself down that long ramp that looks like suburban deck job. You're only shelter is that little bus shelter thing. and so far from the street there's no security and if there is a problem, there's no escape. North Broad was butchered when SEPTA rebuilt it.

North Philly is a little better ammenity wise, but very uninviting. Broken windows, boarded up elevators, trash, etc. One platform is missing a track and has weeds growing on it. Quite a contrast to how the station was 50 years ago.

I should note Broad & Lehigh is improving. A warehouse on the one corner is being renovated into something. Hopefully offices. Its a shame that North Broad, seeming how it was demolished, couldn't have been moved closer to North Philly. Would have been a big project, but could have been SEPTA's version of "Seacaucus Transfer". Although if the R3 is ever extended to North Jersey again, via NJT, it might not be neccecary.