Track plan of NY penn station

wigwagfan wrote:

dbperry wrote:How can we let such sensitive information be published? What if a not-nice person gets a hold of this! Just think of the consequences!

I'll address this from an "official" standpoint with regards to the forum...

Thanks for the official standpoint - but just to clarify my standpoint, I was also joking (as evidenced by the second paragraph, which Erik didn't quote: "Just kidding").

wigwagfan wrote:

I'll address this from an "official" standpoint with regards to the forum...
Track plans, in and of themselves, are not wepaons; one cannot actually use the track without access to rail equipment; and the ability to vandalize the track structure does not require a railroad map but simply access to the railroad itself....

Wigwagfan, from my point of view, that was the most concise, intelligent and logical explanation I've ever seen concerning what some, this writer included; may consider "sensitive" information. I am sure there are those in law enforcement and Homeland Security who will disagree, but that is another problem altogether!

To checkthedoorlight; your initial drawing of GCT is great! I've never seen any schematic representation of GCT before, so I was impressed! I have seen a diagram, albeit extremely poor quality, of NYP; but the link provided by CarterB was the best quality diagram of NYP I've seen.

I, too had some original concerns about the posting of the NYP diagrams. I wondered about posting copies of some other information I have on the forum, and up to now decided against it in the interests of "security". I will have to re-think that now...

Checkthedoorlight, I wish you great success in your plans! What I would want to see along with the track charts are signal and interlocking plans... A lot of the original PRR (now NEC) diagrams are posted here:

http://broadway.pennsyrr.com/Rail/Prr/Maps/index.html

These may be an excellent place to start because a lot of the information is still valid or only has minor changes; with the exception of work like Secaucus Junction and ther MidtownDirect connections to the NEC; also the Newark Airport station.

Unfortunately at the above-referenced site, the one set of drawings Mark Bej was unable to come up with were the interlocking drawings for Penn Station New York! Those would be the "Holy Grail" for those of us with an interest in signaling and interlocking to find... Does anyone know anyone who has copies that could be scanned?

dbperry wrote:Thanks for the official standpoint - but just to clarify my standpoint, I was also joking (as evidenced by the second paragraph, which Eric didn't quote: "Just kidding").

I have no plans to do anything bad. I just wanted a visual idea of where the three different railways were. In an underground station it is impossible to get a picture of where everything is, and anyway one is either rushing to get on a train, or rushing to get off the platform on arrival.

I have arrived by NJT, Amtrak, passed through on Amtrak, joined a train there (Southern Crescent, as it then was), Adirondack to Montreal, Amtrak to Bridgeport, but not so far a LIRR train.

dbperry wrote:Thanks for the official standpoint - but just to clarify my standpoint, I was also joking (as evidenced by the second paragraph, which Eric didn't quote: "Just kidding").

I knew someone would probably point it out sooner or later (not jokingly), so might as well just make it clear that I'm not going to edit/kill the post.

If I'm going to edit anything here, it's going to be that you spelled my name wrong

wigwagfan wrote:you spelled my name wrong

track charts on the internet = appropriate, nothing to get upset about
spelling someone's name wrong = horrible!

Sorry!

MODERATOR'S NOTE:

It's time to move this topic to the Stations, Terminals, and Yards Forum

wigwagfan wrote:

dbperry wrote:Otherwise I would have to prohibit public timetables as well (since they provide....

Back in 1976, a Reading RR policeman at Reading terminal warned me about asking for advance copies of a new timetable, because Nazi saboteurs fresh off the submarine from Europe had been inquiring at Amagansett (LIRR) station for schedules to Horseshoe Curve. The notice was still posted!

JimBoylan wrote:

wigwagfan wrote:

dbperry wrote:Otherwise I would have to prohibit public timetables as well (since they provide....

Back in 1976, a Reading RR policeman at Reading terminal warned me about asking for advance copies of a new timetable, because Nazi saboteurs fresh off the submarine from Europe had been inquiring at Amagansett (LIRR) station for schedules to Horseshoe Curve. The notice was still posted!

Okay, I know that NJT Police have been late getting the word about the photo ban (or lack thereof)... but cops in 1976 worried about Nazi Saboteurs?!?! Talk about behind the times...

On the GCT map , it appears that there are return loops on both levels . are they actually there ?

David Benton wrote: ... are they actually there ?

Yep, but only upper one is used now.

How current is the map? I thought the Empire Connection was double tracked recently.

track charts on the internet = appropriate, nothing to get upset about
spelling someone's name wrong = horrible!

Sorry![/quote]


Correct, but what you're looking at on this forum isn't even a track chart; its just a plain track PLAN, like it says. (Doesn't even show KN interlocking.) There are differences. Track charts are VERY detailed. If signal oriented, they'll include switch numbers, type of switch, signal numbers, possible indications on each signal, etc. If Mtce of Way oriented, they'll show curvature degrees, grades and gradients, and you get the picture. Yes, even track charts are appropriate for internet posting. As the 9 star General (or whatever needless rank he used -- organization not disclosed) already said, someone with unsavory motives would need much more than track plans, or even track charts, to cause us harm. They'd need access to the RR! Which, outside NYP, is free and clear throughout the continent.

One of the first things old President Bush said after the 9/11 terrorist attacks, is that everyone should just continue in their daily affairs as though it didn't happen, to the greatest extent possible of course. Otherwise we concede defeat. And at all times since, all we ever did was concede defeat. We've spent quadrillions [of dollars we didn't have] to create new govt agencies, hire unemployable morons to harass and harangue infinite numbers of innocent children and elderly folk at most airports, and got RR police (especially AMTK) to intimidate all the other good citizens (like telling them it's illegal to photograph stations and trains). What do they need terrorists for anymore, they've won; we've since become our own worst terrorists! (The term includes mental terrorism.) All because we didn't follow Bush's prudent initial advice. Now we're well on our way to destroying our country and wiping it off the maps, by continuing to fund all kinds of stupidity, ignoring our Constitution, and installing political cronies [of one type or another] into the Supreme Court. The same Supreme Court that once stood as a model for the world, and has since lost most of its international respect.

VRP

35dtmrs92 wrote:How current is the map? I thought the Empire Connection was double tracked recently.

the Empire connection is double track, except for the tunnel leading into NYP.

as for GCT the lower level loop is no longer usable , cause the ESA terminal hall is were the west side of loop use to be.