The Ultmiate Regional Rail System

Bensalem SEPTA rider wrote:...Said the kid from Newtown...where they don't know what Transit is...

Also says the kid from Germantown, where transit is plentiful. You will have such a hard fight getting rid of the inner lanes, that it will cost more in the end. Just run the freakin' thing underground and then it doesn't matter what the Blvd looks like.

Bensalem SEPTA rider wrote:

SCB2525 wrote:Hell will freeze over before you get railroad tracks in place of the express lanes of the Boulevard.

...Said the kid from Newtown...where they don't know what Transit is...

.....Said the kid who lived within view of the Boulevard for years prior and knows what it is to think practically. Why the hell would I frequent this forum if I didn't know something about transit or at least have an intrest?

Maybe you're right. OOO! I know! In addition to that, how about we tear up every 5th street across the city and replace them with interurbans. Then we put El's on the top of people's roofs with a station per household and tear down anything in the way! It'll be awesome!

You don't seem to realize that 70% of what you suggest about anything is wildly impractical and shouldn't be done if SEPTA had all the money and drive in the world, and most are very ill-informed and lack practical fact finding.

I stand by what I said. You WON'T get the express lanes converted to rail, nor SHOULD they be converted to rail. And a regional rail line is not practical for the area at all; it having long headways and expensive fares for the demographic it serves.

Lets keep it civil guys. No need for this to turn into SubChat.

That being said, regional rail down roosevlet would be a folly. Why go through all of that trouble to get the trains downtown when you have perfectly good express track under broad street that can do the job faster. And building a transit subway is slightly cheaper then a heavy rail subway due to the lower clearences. And besides it should be built as a modern elevated line. The width of the boulevard negates many of the undesirable effects of elevated lines. You don't have to worry about plunging the street into darkness for example. And running anything at-grade would be like shooting yourself in the foot. Too many crossings. If septa played thier cards right there would be serious federal money available for this project. I read somewhere probobly in planning study that came out a few years ago that the boulevard line has some of the lowest cost vs ridership numbers of any project in the nation. Its a shame it has never been built.

Sean@Temple

Sorry, i'm just tired of being grouped as a stupid rich punk kid because of where I live. Maybe it is warrented; God knows this area is full of such people. Just keep this in mind: as soon as I have the means, I'm moving back to Philly.

If I recall correctly, the boulevard subway project is THE lowest cost vs. ridership project in the US.

SCB2525 wrote:If I recall correctly, the boulevard subway project is THE lowest cost vs. ridership project in the US.

It had the second highest ridership projection according to last years fta reports, and has the best cost-benefit ratio mostly because of the extreme cost of new-york area projects, notably the multi-billion 2nd ave subway.

SCB2525 wrote:Sorry, i'm just tired of being grouped as a stupid rich punk kid because of where I live. Maybe it is warrented; God knows this area is full of such people. Just keep this in mind: as soon as I have the means, I'm moving back to Philly.

If I recall correctly, the boulevard subway project is THE lowest cost vs. ridership project in the US.

it's not personal. It's transit. I've been to other cities besides Philly and LRT/Commuter seems to work fine.

But hey, Subway is cool too. I did once have a plan for a massive subway expansion across the city. Maybe it's time to revive that thread...



Anyway, anyone got an idea as to why the R7 is not widely used by the Northeast? I could see the Tacony/Holmesburg/Torresdale stops being heavly used if renovated and better connected to the neighborhoods.

Anyway, anyone got an idea as to why the R7 is not widely used by the Northeast? I could see the Tacony/Holmesburg/Torresdale stops being heavly used if renovated and better connected to the neighborhoods.

Because those neighborhoods are close enough to the EL or transit connecting to the EL.

Torresdale is an extremely heavy station, followed by Holmesburg with Tacony bringing up the rear. Bridesburg is probablly the worst performing and in the worst shape facility wise.

I think Bridesburg would do better if it had better connections with the 73.

I wonder if the Trenton Line would do better if the Conrail Industrial line at Holmesburg had a passenger shuttle on it. Then again, the NE doesen't have alot of good rail options. They have the R3 WTrenton & the R7 but in some cases its just easier driving to Bridge-Pratt and picking up the El, plus the El is cheaper, hence the parking garage project at Bridge-Pratt.

I wonder if the Trenton Line would do better if the Conrail Industrial line at Holmesburg had a passenger shuttle on it.

Officially that line is called the Bustleton Secondary and not unless the line is totally rebuilt crossing grades included. Also it would need catenary strung and your competeing with quite a few bus routes which connect to the EL.

If the Blvd subway never gets built, it would be another great option, along with some kind of service on the NYSL.

Usafcop580 wrote: Officially that line is called the Bustleton Secondary and not unless the line is totally rebuilt crossing grades included. Also it would need catenary strung and your competeing with quite a few bus routes which connect to the EL.

A passenger shuttle, maybe something like Princeton's "Dinky," would be useful along that line. It used to go all the way to Bustleton and Welsh, but since the development of the area, it now terminates behind a car dealership on the east side of Roosevelt Boulevard. The line would need serious rehab - I walked it a few years ago, and it's not in great shape - but the connection to the middle of the NE would be useful, especially if through-ticketing was allowed. To be really successful, it would have to be easily accessible from the bus routes on the Boulevard, and any future subway line there.

jfrey40535 wrote:If the Blvd subway never gets built, it would be another great option, along with some kind of service on the NYSL.

This seems even less likely than the Boulevard subway. Where the NYSL joins the Fox Chase Line, SEPTA and Conrail have gone to great lengths to separate the two lines, thus reducing a larger portion of the R8 to single-track. I think neither company would like to have each other's trains running together for a longer stretch. Plus, the nature of population settlement around grade-level rails means that all of the places people want to live and work and shop ended up being farther from the rail line than from the Boulevard, where a subway, once completed, would be far less noisy and obtrusive.

I completely agree, however it seems unlikely despite everything that has been done in the past 10 years that the Blvd subway will ever be built. Setting up a shuttle on the Bustleton Secondary seems a little more doable as its probablly less capital intensive.

Hec, these days I guess any rail project is intense though, almost to the point that you wonder how anything new gets built. If only we could be more like NJT...

SEPTA wont run trains on the Bustleton Secondary because of the fact it is cost prohibitive to rebuild the whole line. You have to look at the bridge over Frankford Ave. and Pennypack would have to have catenary supports put in. New grade crossings added at Willits (if you plan on having a station at the Blvd. Welsh Rd shopping areas). New stations. Community support considering they generally dont run trains on the line. Impact costs on how much it would cost to run the train all the way to Market East as SEPTA will not operate it as a dinky and the costs for it to compete with the 66,14, 20 and any other routes it crosses.

CSX does not care for passenger trains and I doubt you will ever see it on NYSL. The track would either need to be double track or you would have to add passing sidings and catenary and Iam sure CSX would bitch up a storm because they want to add run their trailer and container trains and unfortunatly they would have limits because of the catenery. The only good part is to watch the Tropicana Juice trains from the line.

Which is exactly why transit sucks in Philly.