Talgo on NYP- ALB

There used to be turboliners on the NYP- ALB route to expidite service, it failed. But the talgo equipment seems like a good train set to run on the line, (tilts, high speed, classy). Any thoughts?
TD

The Talgo cars are powered by an F59PHI, which would not be able to enter the tunnels to NYC because a) they're diesel powered and b) I believe the F59 is too tall too meet height clearances.

traindude wrote:There used to be turboliners on the NYP- ALB route to expidite service, it failed. But the talgo equipment seems like a good train set to run on the line, (tilts, high speed, classy). Any thoughts?
TD

Impossible. Talgos can only use low platforms, like Superliners and Surfliners. And to be frank, the Turboliners didn't "fail"—they were not returned to service due to Super Steel being remiss about a few matters concerning the rebuild.

(For those that intend to bring up the ACF "Talgos" that ran out of GCT in New Haven/NYC days, remember that the "gull wing" entrance door configuration for high platforms—imagine having to exit via steps up to a high platform nowadays?—would not meet either FRA crashworthiness specs, nor ADA access, nor other safety requirements.)

jimzim66 wrote:The Talgo cars are powered by an F59PHI, which would not be able to enter the tunnels to NYC because a) they're diesel powered and b) I believe the F59 is too tall too meet height clearances.

You could pull the Talgos with any loco, including the P32AC-DM. The problem, as mentioned above, is that they are strictly low level platform cars.

Ah right, I forgot the locomotive isnt semi-permanently coupled like the cars themselves.

Also, what exactly would the point be? What advantage do they provide over the current Amfleet equipmnent?

Seems to me the main advantage would be the tilting. With it, the Talgo's can execede posted BNSF speed limits.

But I wonder, BNSF keeps there tracks nicer than CSX, would a tilting train really be able to execede posted speed limits on CSX track?

As for the image, I know first hand that Acela bennifits from having a different image than the Amfleet, a newer, more modern image.

Seems to me the main advantage would be the tilting. With it, the Talgo's can execede (sic) posted BNSF speed limits

Talgos do nothing of the sort. The Cascades trains operate at no faster than 79 mph. In theory, the tilt feature allows the trains to negotiate curves at the maximum safe limit without inducing the discomfort that a non-tilting train would cause, as well as keep objects from flying around the train due to centripetal forces.

People would generally not enjoy the Talgo experience. It utterly amazes me that the equipment is as successful as it is in the PAcific northwest. You ride with your rear end a couple of fet off the ground, the train has a tin-can feel to it, and ---- well, it's just not the experience of a train.

The late lamented turbos that some on this forum keep longing for the return of at least were standard floor height equipment and felt like a train when you were on board!

This stuff is a holdover from the 50s tin train era that just refuses to die

gprimr1 wrote:Seems to me the main advantage would be the tilting. With it, the Talgo's can execede posted BNSF speed limits.

But I wonder, BNSF keeps there tracks nicer than CSX, would a tilting train really be able to execede posted speed limits on CSX track?

As for the image, I know first hand that Acela bennifits from having a different image than the Amfleet, a newer, more modern image.

As another posted pointed out, the Talgos operate at 79mph. That would mean in places speeds would be lowered from 110mph.

So the advantage is what again?

No, if you really wanted to make a difference on the Empire Service to Albany, put in catenary, and upgrade the blocks and run Acelas up from NYP.

(At that point a straight through ALB-NYP-BOS train would come close to beating the LSL.)

Greg Moore wrote:As another posted pointed out, the Talgos operate at 79mph. That would mean in places speeds would be lowered from 110mph.

The Talgo cars are rated for 125 mph, and the goal in the Pacific Northwest is to get operating speeds up to 110.

That goal will be reached long after the Talgo's are retired.
Talgo USA is pretty much out of busines in US even their website has not been updated for last 3 or 4 years.

You ride with your rear end a couple of feet off the ground, the train has a tin-can feel to it, and ---- well, it's just not the experience of a train

People don't ride a train for the "experience of a train"; they ride a train to go places.

Your "rear" is "a couple of feet off the ground" on the lower level of Superliners and Surfliners as well. Those also fall short of "the experience of a train"?

Nobody has said what the advantage of running Talgos NYP-ALB. The route isn't particularly curvy, so the tilt technology wouldn't gain much.
And of course, they have the problem of not being usable for high-level platforms.
I suppose people, especially railfans, would like some new equipment, and Amfleets are kind of familiar and boring. But Talgos aren't it, in this case. It would be nice to see some modern, appealing cars with bigger windows. But, that's rather low on Amtrak's list of priorities right now; Amfleets work fine.

Actually replacement of Amfleets is high on priorities list but unfortunatly they don't have money to replace the currently nearly 35 year old Amfleets.
The replacements will probably be based on Viewliner but with single row of big windows ala Acela, The view liner is biggest car to fit anywhere on Amtrak system without any restrictions.
Amtrak last year hired engineering people to reverse engineer the current viewliner and to make it comply with todays CFR 49 requirements.
small windows like Amfleet are no longer allowed in new construction.