Suburban Propane - Chili

FarmallBob wrote:Somewhat sadly this leaves exactly (2) active sidings/spurs left in the town of Chili: The signaled siding off the CSX main between CP's 380 and 382, and the Metallico/84 Lumber spur off the Westshore near Scottsville Rd.

Higbie siding was lifted late last winter. The west end switch and several thousand feet Pixley Industrial siding was lifted about 1990 - the remaining Pixley Industrial Spur now stops near Trabold Rd at Weckesser Brick in the town of Gates. And the Case-Hoyt spur off the West Shore disappeared in the late 1990's.

On the R&S, the Gottry spur was lifted about 20 years ago after Higgins/Gottry folded. Remnants of another OOS spur still exist south of Paul Rd - the switch is long gone but the rails still wander off south-east into the underbrush.

"Progress" I guess...

...FB

I remember a siding off the R & S (Cheesie back in 1983) that serviced Wegmans. The switch was just south of the station and wound toward the east side of the warehouse serving the bakery. I worked on a dock during the summer and would see deliveries 2 or 3 times a week. That siding is gone now - no idea when that occurred.

Suburban Propane has gone thru a lot of changes. They had small rail served bulk plants all over. I switched several of them in CNY and they are all gone. Part of the problem is the plants were small. If they could take a car of gas, they had to be almost empty in the bulk tank. Throw in bad service (Penn Central, for example) and the customer was out of gas for days or weeks at a time while they waited for someone to find or deliver "our car". Additionally they had to have a man on duty running the compressor usually for a whole day while the car was pumped off. Today, the 15,000 gallon LP transports you see on the Thruway come out of Sarnia, Ont. or off the pipeline (Tepco) terminals at Watkins Glen, Harford Mills, Oneonta, or the end of the line in Selkirk. Shale gas has to go thru a process called factorization to convert some of it to propane ( C3 ). There I think are several plants in PA factoring shale gas . No, we couldn't do this in New York because it might mar somebody's viewshed or it might inconvenience some taxpayer if they had to wait at a stop sign for a truck carrying energy to heat their home.

Factorization. Thanks Hojack - I knew there was a process but knew refining did not sound right. Amazing what you can learn on here!

As a side note, when Ontario Central RR started up they served Texgas in Manchester, which received carloads from Sarnia ON. Somewhere roughly about 1984 Suburban bought up some locations from Texgas including that one. Suburban had locations in Chili, Geneva and.....Wayland????....so Manchester was somewhat in the middle of the triangle. The facility on ONCT was shut down, probably to the relief of neighbors as it was pretty close to residential sidestreets.

Switching them was an adventure - at the time, the tail track used to access the spur was not in very good shape and minor derailments were not unusual. Also, the cars had to be spotted fairly precisely at the unloading racks, and any sudden start or stop would set the liquid to sloshing. Cut the engine away a few feet and stop, next thing you knew the car would jump forward and re-couple itself! Add in the fact that various tanks and containers in the place would often vent, leaving a constant aroma of propane on the air, and crews were not entirely sad to see it go.

BR&P wrote:As a side note, when Ontario Central RR started up they served Texgas in Manchester, which received carloads from Sarnia ON. Somewhere roughly about 1984 Suburban bought up some locations from Texgas including that one. Suburban had locations in Chili, Geneva and.....Wayland????....so Manchester was somewhat in the middle of the triangle. The facility on ONCT was shut down, probably to the relief of neighbors as it was pretty close to residential sidestreets.

Yes, Suburban was in Wayland back in the '80s. I don't know if the facility is still there or not.

When I worked outa Lyons, we ran the locos together as we could runaround them at Genesee junct.. We had a caboose to use as a shoving platform and the conductor would stand on the rear platform to protect the shove, watch crossings, signals and give car counts to the engineer, as we shoved West to Suburban. (about 4 miles) Running push/pull is utilized to expedite moves where runaround moves may take too long or facilities don't exist.
The subruban switch to truck supply was well in progress before the Marcellus Shale gas really began to take hold. Simply cheaper and more convenient to receive such a small supply by truck than by rail.

Not a Suburban Propane dealer anymore, but here's where their siding used to be in Canton NY: http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/way/64641707

BR&P wrote: Also, the cars had to be spotted fairly precisely at the unloading racks, and any sudden start or stop would set the liquid to sloshing. Cut the engine away a few feet and stop, next thing you knew the car would jump forward and re-couple itself!

Wait... why didn't you spot the car, put on the handbrakes so it wouldn't roll away, and then uncouple and pull away?

You are right, dumping the air and setting the handbrake in *most* cases will restrain the car. The effectiveness of the brake will vary from one car to another depending on adjustment of the rigging, ice on the brake shoes, etc. But if a car sloshes it sometimes can "scoot" along a bit even with the brakes set.

Back about 1980 there was a fatality on Conrail in Canandaigua when an employee failed to follow a safety rule. He cut off a car of alcohol, separated the engine by a couple feet and walked between. The tank car jumped and coupled him up. I don't know whether the hand brake had been applied in that instance or not.

Russ - Nice maps!

To your questions:

The west end switch and several thousand feet Pixley Industrial siding was lifted about 1990 - the remaining Pixley Industrial Spur now stops near Trabold Rd at Weckesser Brick in the town of Gates.
This: http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/way/53785725, although I don't have it to the west end switch marked as abandoned. Do you know exactly where that switch was?

Switch was a short distance (100 - 200 ft) east of the Auto 378 signal bridge.

----

And the Case-Hoyt spur off the West Shore disappeared in the late 1990's.

This? http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/way/52313090

Yes.

----

On the R&S, the Gottry spur was lifted about 20 years ago after Higgins/Gottry folded.

This? http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/way/167157266

Yes again!

----

Remnants of another OOS spur still exist south of Paul Rd - the switch is long gone but the rails still wander off south-east into the underbrush.

This?? http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/way/167156211 But it goes south-west.

That's the one!

Blame my choice of words for the confusion. The rails indeed head off south-west. However since they are on the EAST side of the ROW, I described it "south-east". My error.

Anyone know what business this siding served? Or is it perhaps the north end of a long-abandoned IC track between the BR&P/B&O and the Westhore?

----

And what about this (or is this too close to the city?) http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/way/97935038

This one's actually in the town of Gates.

...FB

I'm not sure if it's the siding on the R&S you mention but somewhere in there was some plant which made explosives of some sort. I know - pretty vague but that's all I remember from what I was told.

It was not a BR&P/NYC interchange, that was on the southeast quadrant.

And what about this (or is this too close to the city?) http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/way/97935038

This one's actually in the town of Gates.



That is the spur to Wegmans warehouse I mentioned earlier in this thread. Long OOS, and track I believe are totally lifted.

And one other siding I recall was on the CSX main line in Gates , just east of Pixley Rd. about 1/4 mile on the north side of the main.

http://www.bing.com/maps/?v=2&cp=r5q5qn ... orm=LMLTCC - (edited for new url)

Memster1 wrote:And what about this (or is this too close to the city?) http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/way/97935038

This one's actually in the town of Gates.
That is the spur to Wegmans warehouse I mentioned earlier in this thread. Long OOS, and track I believe are totally lifted.

Ahhhh. I was looking at the aerial photo, which seems to show the tracks OOS but still present.

And one other siding I recall was on the CSX main line in Gates , just east of Pixley Rd. about 1/4 mile on the north side of the main.

http://www.bing.com/maps/?FORM=Z9LH2#Y3 ... ZzdHk9bw==

Aha! Got it! It's in OSM now.

And thanks for the info, FarmallBob, I've made the edits using your hints.

RussNelson wrote:

Memster1 wrote:And what about this (or is this too close to the city?) http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/way/97935038

This one's actually in the town of Gates.
That is the spur to Wegmans warehouse I mentioned earlier in this thread. Long OOS, and track I believe are totally lifted.

Ahhhh. I was looking at the aerial photo, which seems to show the tracks OOS but still present.

And one other siding I recall was on the CSX main line in Gates , just east of Pixley Rd. about 1/4 mile on the north side of the main.

http://www.bing.com/maps/?v=2&cp=r5q5qn ... orm=LMLTCC

Aha! Got it! It's in OSM now.

I took another look at the BING maps for the Wegmans spur and when I rotate the map I do see signs of some track remaining. I think it was lifted inside the Wegmans property. I also updated the url for the Pixley siding as well so it actually takes the viewer to that location.

If there's nothing happening on the West Shore line, then why do I frequently see a pair of push-pull geeps (with covered hoppers and tank cars between) running east? Where does it come from, and where does it go?

Edit - A CSX train.

Memster1 wrote: http://www.bing.com/maps/?v=2&cp=r5q5qn ... orm=LMLTCC

I took another look at the BING maps for the Wegmans spur and when I rotate the map I do see signs of some track remaining. I think it was lifted inside the Wegmans property. I also updated the url for the Pixley siding as well so it actually takes the viewer to that location.

I tried taking a look, but the Wegmans property is fenced off, and not in a welcoming way. and the R&S yard property was posted, so I didn't go in to look.

Did you scroll east from the Pixley siding whilst looking east? There's a hy-rail captured on the northern track!