SRNJ - Southern Railroad of New Jersey

This is a problem in the entire collection hobby, whether it is railroad cars, classic cars, truck, etc. They reach an end of their life someday. Sadly in our hobby, these are huge pieces that require huge amounts of money to move so they often wind up getting scrapped. And yes, while there are those who wish they could have been saved, and there are those who wanted them, the funds to keep them from scrap just isn't there in these tough economic times.

Later!
Mr. Ed

Agreed Mr. Ed, times are tough but those cars sat around thru decent times too. Did the individual need the scrap money that badly that he couldn't donate them to the NJ RR museum group, Pennsy RR museum, Steamtown or the Altoona people and let them live and possibly be restored? The donation of the cars could have been a write off? (Not sure about that although they are all non-profits) Was it tried?

South Jersey Budd wrote:Agreed Mr. Ed, times are tough but those cars sat around thru decent times too. Did the individual need the scrap money that badly that he couldn't donate them to the NJ RR museum group, Pennsy RR museum, Steamtown or the Altoona people and let them live and possibly be restored? The donation of the cars could have been a write off? (Not sure about that although they are all non-profits) Was it tried?

I've no idea if that concept truly entered the mind of the owner of the equipment, but keep in mind that it's not so easy to just donate a piece of equipment of this type to a museum or group. Simply moving a car of this size requires a sizeable sum of money, and if the owner does not have that, the group to whom he is donating is not likely to agree to pay the fees of movement. For example, the RR Museum of PA has more equipment than it knows what to do with at this point. It's unlikely they'd pay the necessary fees to move the car to their location.

Mike DiMunno
SJRA / SJRail.com

JJMDiMunno wrote:I've no idea if that concept truly entered the mind of the owner of the equipment, but keep in mind that it's not so easy to just donate a piece of equipment of this type to a museum or group. Simply moving a car of this size requires a sizeable sum of money, and if the owner does not have that, the group to whom he is donating is not likely to agree to pay the fees of movement. For example, the RR Museum of PA has more equipment than it knows what to do with at this point. It's unlikely they'd pay the necessary fees to move the car to their location.

I thought the group who would be receiving the cars that get donated would pay the costs? They would move by rail so I'm sure a well established group has a relationship with the class 1 who has moved pieces in the past for them.

South Jersey Budd wrote:

JJMDiMunno wrote:I've no idea if that concept truly entered the mind of the owner of the equipment, but keep in mind that it's not so easy to just donate a piece of equipment of this type to a museum or group. Simply moving a car of this size requires a sizeable sum of money, and if the owner does not have that, the group to whom he is donating is not likely to agree to pay the fees of movement. For example, the RR Museum of PA has more equipment than it knows what to do with at this point. It's unlikely they'd pay the necessary fees to move the car to their location.

I thought the group who would be receiving the cars that get donated would pay the costs? They would move by rail so I'm sure a well established group has a relationship with the class 1 who has moved pieces in the past for them.

All well and good if the equipment is roadworthy...class 1s have requirements for movement of equipment.

These cars in question would have had to be transported by truck or required significant repair to make them roadworthy.

Mike DiMunno

If the donation is to a true 501 (C) 3, then it is a tax write off for the donor. If it is to some other non-501 (C) 3 organization, it isn't a tax write off. And like stated above, then there is moving the thing. True in this case the cars were on live rail but CSAO wouldn't allow them on their tracks regardless of how well the friction bearings were lubricated and how well the brakes work. If that were the case, there was a good chance that they would have gone south to the CMSL. And in the case of a museum that is no longer on live rail, these would have to be movd by truck and most likely each car would have costed in excess of 20 grand to move. Again if the hauler is having a good year, he too could move it as a donation, but we haven't found that hauler yet! Sad, but these are the facts of life and the reason more equipment is going to scrap. There is so much equipment out there free for the taking but moving it is the main reason most of it hasn't been moved. Anybody have Warren Buffett's phone number? How about Mr. Microsoft?

The next best alternative is too at least publicize the fact and harvest as many useable parts for other car restorations. We all have to get better at keeping as much history alive in full pieces or at least parts for other full pieces restoration.

Later!
Mr. Ed

Mr. Ed wrote:If the donation is to a true 501 (C) 3, then it is a tax write off for the donor.

True, and since a tax writeoff goes against income, not taxes, the donor must really want to make the donation to preserve the equipment.

Example, say a car is worth $1,000 scrap value.

Owner in a 30% tax bracket scraps it, gets paid the $1,000 less $300 in taxes, net to owner, $700. (the tax is less if the owner had a non-zero dollar basis in the car so the owner could get up to $1,000)

Same owner elects to donate the car to a 501(c)(3): Reduces income by $1,000, so donor nets $300.

Most people would opt for scrapping from an economic standpoint.

If they are gettign rid of cars ihope they give the bud to Cape Maye insted of scrape it. Do they still have alkl the gas cars by the firing raneg?

bystander wrote:If they are gettign rid of cars ihope they give the bud to Cape Maye insted of scrape it. Do they still have alkl the gas cars by the firing raneg?

I don't believe the RDC is one of the cars in question at this time...

Mike DiMunno

The greatest empty phrases ever uttered by railfans: "They should donate that car to a museum!" and "That museum should get that car!"

Scrapping is a last resort. No one wants to cut up historic equipment when it can be saved. Unfortunately, railroad preservation is a very expensive hobby...

-otto-

Otto Vondrak wrote:The greatest empty phrases ever uttered by railfans: "They should donate that car to a museum!" and "That museum should get that car!"

Scrapping is a last resort. No one wants to cut up historic equipment when it can be saved. Unfortunately, railroad preservation is a very expensive hobby...

-otto-

It cost the BRRHT almost 9K to truck CNJ 1009 from P'burg to Flemington. Thats 9K less that we have to throw at the car to start the restoration project.

We went down to Winslow in Jan to look at ex DLW MU. The owner wanted more than we were willing to part with for the condition we felt the car was in.

Otto Vondrak wrote:The greatest empty phrases ever uttered by railfans: "They should donate that car to a museum!" and "That museum should get that car!"

Scrapping is a last resort. No one wants to cut up historic equipment when it can be saved. Unfortunately, railroad preservation is a very expensive hobby...

-otto-

Agreed it is an expensive hobby but as railfans we think with our hearts not always understanding what looks like a pretty good car may need a ton of work to move to that museum. If that was the case and the tax benefits were not as fruitful as the scrap cost then the correct decision was probably made. I can understand the cost of trucking a car or engine being very expensive with cranes, permits insurance, etc. involved.

Most of us are not experts but have the hope of preservation. I'm not sure I consider it an "empty phrase" asking to preserve history.I could have pictured those cars behind the 1361 one day in the.... well future?

You hit the nail right on the head. We do think with our hearts because it is an emotional hobby we share. That is why I said that the least they could do is to put advance notice out there to see if there are any parts that could be harvested before final destruction. And it might just be a case of asking. About 6 years ago, we found out that an N5c was to be cut up in South Plainfield. We contacted CSAO who gave us the scrappers # and he told us to come up and take what we wanted, no charge. We couldn't have the trucks or couplers but everything else was OK. This car was in a consist that was parked on a siding back in the '90s and forgotten about. In it were two hoppers loaded with ballast, a cast steel flat car, a gondola and the N5c. The scapper was willing to sell us any of the cars we wanted for his cost. We were interested in the flat car but couldn't afford to buy it and ship it.

So we need to do a better job of getting information diseminated on the web about scrapings to salvage as many usable parts as possile.

Later!
Mr. Ed

Agreed and good post Mr. Ed.

Railroad history and the Railroads part in our Country's history truely amazes me. Who knows where we would be if w didn't have the railroads. Those P-70's could have carried troops to or safely home from war.

The history, demise then re-birth of the American Railroad industry, I personally believe, encaptures many of us to this hobby.

Thanks, Budd.

Later!
Mr. Ed