Southern Tier - East of Binghamton

Not saying new hires are going to run the trains. But if using the people already in place to run the new trains, you need new people to run the ones that are already running. There isn't enough people out of Bingo or Croxton to run trains on the Deleware AND run what is currently running. Hence, the need for more people. Oh, and don't forget the projected spike in gas related traffic....

douglasmulls wrote:If it comes at all I can assure you its not going NYS&W.

That's what Conrail thought when they wanted to run stack trains . . . never say never . . .

Why would they add 4-6 more hours? give it up not happening.

douglasmulls wrote:Why would they add 4-6 more hours? give it up not happening.

More like 2 hours. Why not? And its cheaper. Odds are the 2 or 3 trains they'd run are low priority to begin with so why not?

Actually from what I've heard it all points to priority intermodal that would be running hence the requirements in the lease to get the CNY to upgrade the Tier to 40mph.

dano23 wrote:Actually from what I've heard it all points to priority intermodal that would be running hence the requirements in the lease to get the CNY to upgrade the Tier to 40mph.

I actually heard it would be low priority freights coming off the Lehigh line due to congestion on SAA in NJ...Obviously NS is short on crews now, so nothing will happen until that issue is addressed!

There is enough rumor going around now to make your head spin!!!!!

Inland port trains are a given and where NS will begin using the Tier. Other low priority diversions are currently a rumor (although a rumor that seems to be gaining strength, as I've heard similar things). Inland port trains will definitely be somewhat time sensative runs. Again, I have currently not heard anything that would make me think this would be an NYSW operation.

well if the trains come first they could have NYSW handle them till NS has there crew situation in place.

Not to disparage NYSW, but look at how well they moved CSX's bridge traffic years ago. If memory serves me correctly, service wasn't overly terrific. CSX regularly sent Q271 and another train over the NYSW during summer trackwork season. How many years has it been since that last occured? I could be wrong, but I can't imagine NS letting a similar situation occur with intermodal of any variety. I'd bet if/when this traffic ever materializes, it's going to be an all-NS show.

JR

Here Here stop it already!!

I don't want to disparage the NYSW either... but I don't know why NS would pay the NYSW to run trains when they can easily do it themselves as they have their own route. I don't see how that could be cheaper. Remember, NS just gave up control of the Hudson Secondary, so I would think that any trains running over that route would have to be NYSW trains. Currently, I believe NYSW has only enough full crews to handle their traffic they have, so temporarily handling NS stack trains wouldn't really be possible.

IMHO - this article probably is related to the discussion.

Hopefully this will allow the full URL to display:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/us_port_expa ... RzcmFjZXQ-

AP article from Yahoo News site:

"...East Coast ports from New York to Miami simply aren't deep enough to handle such mammoth vessels as the CMA CGM Figaro, which measures 1,100 feet long with space for 8,500 cargo containers a tractor-trailer can haul one at a time. With a major expansion of the Panama Canal projected to be finished by the end of 2014, these gargantuan vessels will be able to sail between Asia and the U.S. East Coast.

The canal expansion is pitting seaports up and down the Atlantic coast in a race to dig deeper harbors capable of handling the so-called post-Panamax ships.

"It's going to almost triple the size of the vessels that are going to be able to transit the canal," said Kurt J. Nagle, president of the American Association of Port Authorities. "I don't think it's overhyped to say it's a gamechanger...."

century430 wrote:Not to disparage NYSW, but look at how well they moved CSX's bridge traffic years ago. If memory serves me correctly, service wasn't overly terrific. CSX regularly sent Q271 and another train over the NYSW during summer trackwork season. How many years has it been since that last occured? I could be wrong, but I can't imagine NS letting a similar situation occur with intermodal of any variety. I'd bet if/when this traffic ever materializes, it's going to be an all-NS show.

JR

NYSW has picked up CSX over flow low priority traffic of grain hoppers on a regular basis now that operate west on the SU-99. Lots of Santa Fe and green BN hoppers tonight.

SecaucusJunction wrote:I don't want to disparage the NYSW either... but I don't know why NS would pay the NYSW to run trains when they can easily do it themselves as they have their own route. I don't see how that could be cheaper. Remember, NS just gave up control of the Hudson Secondary, so I would think that any trains running over that route would have to be NYSW trains. Currently, I believe NYSW has only enough full crews to handle their traffic they have, so temporarily handling NS stack trains wouldn't really be possible.

Only reason NS would give them to the NYSW is that if the trains were to run down the NJT Main or Bergen, those are a nightmare of congestion as it is and I highly doubt NJT wants to let freights down its lines regularly as it is (they don't like H-07 and H-55 on a good day). And NYSW is basically second to dirt and/or radioactive mud in haulage rates, and if they had the opportunity to take on the potential "trains" in question, I doubt they'd name an absurd price. My guess would be just slightly over the break even point to show that yes, they can be taken seriously and wash over the CSX train incidents a few years back. My friend just finished his training and is about to go on the road for NS, and another for the NYSW. We'll see where they wind up.

Don't count the NYSW out just yet. Conrail did that in the 80's, and before they could finish saying "Sealand," the NYSW was running stacks with ALCo's on the point all the way to Buffalo, as well as later operating the D&H for a few years. We'll wait and see, but I see another NYSW come back in the mix pretty soon . . . never say never . . .

OK...Sure!!

ErieLimited,

A few thoughts about your post and I encourage your thoughts as well...

1. It sounds like you are saying that NS is going to just give these trains to the NYSW at Binghamton. That would be NS giving up half the haulage and $$ for these trains when they could easily handle it the entire way themselves.

2. Everyone always says that NJT does not want freights on their line. Granted it might be a little more difficult for dispatchers, but no one has ever given anything concrete that shows this is true. NJT dispatchers are far better with freight than many other passenger lines including MN.

3. I would think that trackage rights fees are regulated. Remember,they only really travel on NJT tracks for a little over 20 miles. NS made the Metro North lease very favorable to them

4. Logistically, this won't work as this is going to be somewhat of a night operation on the extreme East end and NYSW has nowhere to pass east of Hudson Junction. I can't see NS wanting to back trains in and out of SJ just to pass (if that track is still there)

5. A few pages back, it was said that NS needs to make this run from PANYNJ to Buffalo in 16 hours. That is not possible on an NYSW routing

6. Extra power would be needed to haul trains over Sparta Mountain using more resources that are not necessary.

7. NYSW is no longer a railroad that can compete with the larger roads. All they can do is basically perform local service along their lines and haul whatever CSX wants them to. So it is not possible for them to go around NS and grab any business away. Both NS and CSX have to approve any decisions they make... especially since WR passed away.


Again, maybe I am way off as I don't understand all the inner decisions of the railroad. This is just how I currently see it. I'm just happy that it seems that we'll be seeing more trains in places where we haven't seen them in about a decade...