Silverliner Design Questions

I'm curious as to why all of the silverliners lack both audible warning devices (bells) and visual devices (strobes) when they were built. I don't know the history of FRA regs, but we had a thread on ditch lights in the Amtrak forum and I understand that the ditchlights replaced the no-longer required strobes. I've noticed that NJT's MU's all have both visual and audible warning devices on them, but SEPTA's do not.

Since SEPTA was not the operator of the RR when the cars were ordered, I know they didnt have anything to do with the specs back then.

I'm just wondering if there is something about our system which granted exemption from these requirements(?) Seems like our MU's are the blandest flavor of vanillia that there is.

<i>I'm curious as to why all of the silverliners lack both audible warning devices (bells) and visual devices (strobes) when they were built.</i>

It's not required by FRA regs.

<i> I don't know the history of FRA regs, but we had a thread on ditch lights in the Amtrak forum and I understand that the ditchlights replaced the no-longer required strobes. I've noticed that NJT's MU's all have both visual and audible warning devices on them, but SEPTA's do not. </i>

NJT MUs don't have bells either. There is no legal requirement for bells at all, even for locomotives. Most EMUs don't have bells.

<i>I'm just wondering if there is something about our system which granted exemption from these requirements(?) Seems like our MU's are the blandest flavor of vanillia that there is.</i>

There's no waivers involved at all. Bells are pretty useless, annoy passengers, and break. Nobody buys EMUs in the US with bells, except for Metra's one electric line, and the south shore line, which still has street running.

FYI MJT's MU's do have strobes & bells...I saw them and heard them myself tonight at Trenton.

If there's no requirements for them, why does anyone bother? Would it not just jack up the price then? And if they're so useless and annoying, why do they get used at all on Amtrak/NJT/NS/CSX/etc/etc/etc?

The Feds don't require bells or strobes, but individual states do, and it varies from state to state. Local governments can also impose their own requirements.

FYI NJT's MU's do have strobes & bells

No they do not. Sure you didn't get mixed up with a Comet V cab car? They look rather similar to the Arrows from the cab end. (Or perhaps the Comet IB?)

I'll be the first to admit I don't know a Comet from an Arrow, but they looked like SEPTA silverliners, had pans on them, and flashed in front of my eyes. If it wasn't for the batteries in my camera being dead I would have had a picture to post.

The NJT Comet push-pull cars do have strobes and bells; the Arrow MUs have strobes, but no bells.

FWIW, the only SEPTA RRD cars/loco that I recall seeing with strobes is ALP-44 #2308; I don't think the other locomotives have them, but I haven't taken the R5 during peak hours in a while.

The AEM-7's and P/P's had them but were removed sometime after 1999.

Just to clarify for myself, when you guys talk about "strobes," you mean how the train's headlights blink as it approaches a stop?

I don't know if California is one of those states that requires bells but the Caltrain service in and out of SF has and always uses them as they enter and pull away from the station. I think it serves a very valuable safety purpose as commuters frequently are not paying attention as the train pulls in. The horns would be too loud for station use and I am sure that many a Septa or NJT commuter has been surprised to look up from his paper to be startled at how close the train was to arriving. Besides, admit it. Trains and bells (if no longer whistlres) go together.

R3 Rider wrote:Just to clarify for myself, when you guys talk about "strobes," you mean how the train's headlights blink as it approaches a stop?

Two different things. The "strobes" are strobe lights, roof mounted, at the front roof corners of the engine or cab car. They are the upright white cylindrical things at the top corners of SEPTA 2308 in this picture:

http://naphotos.nerail.org/showpic/?pho ... A4%3ASEPTA

The strobe lights we are talkign about here are identical to cylindrical strobes used on highway vehicles, etc. They only flash -- they're not used for illumination like headlights.

Everything on SEPTA (and most every other railroad) now has ditch lights that flash when the bell (when applicable) or horn is used. When ditchlights were initially applied in the US, I don't think they all were the flashing type, but that has become the standard:

http://naphotos.nerail.org/showpic/?pho ... A1%3ASEPTA

Even flashing ditch lights are not standard: I've operated UP and BNSF locomotives, and their ditch lights don't flash when the horn is operated. Neither do the ditch lights on the FURX/CEFX/GCFX rebuilt locomotives.

All that is required by the regs is that the ditch lights exist.

MARC GP40WH locomotives get around the ditch light regulation because they have Mars lights on top between the numberboards, hence satisfying the FRA regs for "auxilliary lights."

Well, just for the record: Long Island Railroad MU's do not have bells, or strobes, and their ditch lights do not flash.

Head-end View wrote:Well, just for the record: Long Island Railroad MU's do not have bells, or strobes, and their ditch lights do not flash.

The same would apply to Metro-North MU's as well.

Their cab control push pull cars do though.