it would be nice to see the R7 operated properly with long trains and better running speeds. SEPTA's trains are so sllloooww. Is it the crews? Or SEPTA Rules? The speeds are pathetic.The last time I rode from Trenton, in July, we were riding on what appeared to be brand new CWR and concrete ties on the local tracks, and when I peeked into the cab, the digital speedometer read 96. Not too bad for SEPTA.
Railroad Forums
Septa R-7 to N.Y.P
- Discussion relating to Southeastern Pennsylvania Transportation Authority (Philadelphia Metro Area). Official web site can be found here: www.septa.com. Also including discussion related to the PATCO Speedline rapid transit operated by Delaware River Port Authority. Official web site can be found here: http://www.ridepatco.org/.
Moderator: AlexC
by Jbad
by Olton Hall
Jbad wrote:I found that SEPTA will get up to those speeds on the R7 on a regular basis because they get held up for some reason. They have been replaceing the rails and ties on tracks 1 and 4 for the past couple of years.it would be nice to see the R7 operated properly with long trains and better running speeds. SEPTA's trains are so sllloooww. Is it the crews? Or SEPTA Rules? The speeds are pathetic.The last time I rode from Trenton, in July, we were riding on what appeared to be brand new CWR and concrete ties on the local tracks, and when I peeked into the cab, the digital speedometer read 96. Not too bad for SEPTA.
by Wdobner
Not that it'll ever happen, but:
Perhaps after the elimination of the Clockers by Amtrak in 2006 we can have a NYC-PHL express-local train operated jointly by NJT and SEPTA operating with a pool of equipment contributed 75/25 from NJT and SEPTA, and running from Suburban Station to NYP. It'd occupy the same slots the Clockers currently do, and as such would initially be a peak service, but there's little reason it could not become an all day service if some NJT slots into NYP were extended to Suburban. Figure a fare of around 20-25 dollars, with stops at Suburban, 30th St, Cornwell Heights, Trenton, Hamilton, Princeton Jct, New Brunswick, Metropark, EWR, Newark Penn, and NYP. Other possible stops would include a few heavily used local stations along the SEPTA R7, such as Levittown, Bristol, or Croyden. Under this plan, NJT and SEPTA would retain their own local service running from Trenton to NYP or 30th St, there would just be a local service connecting the two cities for half the fare of Amtrak.
Of course it'd make more sense for Amtrak to add a 3rd class commuter coach type service. Buy something like a Comet 5, get it specced for 125mph operation, and stick it on the back of Metroliners or Regionals, with pricing running according to speed. Figure around 20 dollars for a Regional between NYP and PHL, while getting towed by a Metroliner would run you 40-45 dollars. SEPTA and NJT might see their through-ticketed passenger revenue drop, and perhaps would demand restitution of some sort.
This whole process would be a lot simpler if we just went with one completely national body for passenger rail. Let Amtrak run everything, Commuter or Intercity, NJT, SEPTA, MBTA, MN, LIRR, Metra, Metrolink, Sounder, whatever, if they run a train which recieves public monies, give it to Amtrak. Give them a budget and a mandate to unify the system. The local governments will still offer up the money they paid to whatever commuter system preceded Amtrak control, and it will still go to the same agency, but now all schedules will be coordinated, there would be greater through-ticketing possibilities, and a more logical distribution of rail equipment. We wouldn't have NJT rebuilding a yard up in Morrisville to store trains overnight while Powellton sits vacant every night for one thing.
Perhaps after the elimination of the Clockers by Amtrak in 2006 we can have a NYC-PHL express-local train operated jointly by NJT and SEPTA operating with a pool of equipment contributed 75/25 from NJT and SEPTA, and running from Suburban Station to NYP. It'd occupy the same slots the Clockers currently do, and as such would initially be a peak service, but there's little reason it could not become an all day service if some NJT slots into NYP were extended to Suburban. Figure a fare of around 20-25 dollars, with stops at Suburban, 30th St, Cornwell Heights, Trenton, Hamilton, Princeton Jct, New Brunswick, Metropark, EWR, Newark Penn, and NYP. Other possible stops would include a few heavily used local stations along the SEPTA R7, such as Levittown, Bristol, or Croyden. Under this plan, NJT and SEPTA would retain their own local service running from Trenton to NYP or 30th St, there would just be a local service connecting the two cities for half the fare of Amtrak.
Of course it'd make more sense for Amtrak to add a 3rd class commuter coach type service. Buy something like a Comet 5, get it specced for 125mph operation, and stick it on the back of Metroliners or Regionals, with pricing running according to speed. Figure around 20 dollars for a Regional between NYP and PHL, while getting towed by a Metroliner would run you 40-45 dollars. SEPTA and NJT might see their through-ticketed passenger revenue drop, and perhaps would demand restitution of some sort.
This whole process would be a lot simpler if we just went with one completely national body for passenger rail. Let Amtrak run everything, Commuter or Intercity, NJT, SEPTA, MBTA, MN, LIRR, Metra, Metrolink, Sounder, whatever, if they run a train which recieves public monies, give it to Amtrak. Give them a budget and a mandate to unify the system. The local governments will still offer up the money they paid to whatever commuter system preceded Amtrak control, and it will still go to the same agency, but now all schedules will be coordinated, there would be greater through-ticketing possibilities, and a more logical distribution of rail equipment. We wouldn't have NJT rebuilding a yard up in Morrisville to store trains overnight while Powellton sits vacant every night for one thing.
by ryanov
Irish Chieftain wrote:I know that sometimes it's hard to distinguish between Newark Penn and Philly 30th Street's upper level, even nowadays, but this is definitely Newark NJ (Track 2; PATH tracks are out of sight to the left of the photo, and Tracks 3, 4 and 5 are to the right).You sure about that? Where is the open-air part of track 5?
|=| R. Novosielski |=|
by Irish Chieftain
JLo already asked me that question. Here's my reply, and of course you can judge for yourself or contact the person who thus captioned the photo...
by Nasadowsk
<i>This whole process would be a lot simpler if we just went with one completely national body for passenger rail.</i>
Maybe. I don't see it as an answer, and 30 years of Amtrak is a good reason to believe it wouldn't be.
<i>Let Amtrak run everything, Commuter or Intercity, NJT, SEPTA, MBTA, MN, LIRR, Metra, Metrolink, Sounder, whatever, if they run a train which recieves public monies, give it to Amtrak.</i>
Ugh, no. NY area transit agencies are already non responsive enough. Putting management in DC and putting them at the whim of congress would only make it WORSE. And, it would lead to the same lowest common denominatorism that's plagued Amtrak for 30 years. They can't see any 'solution' that doesn't involve Superliners or Acelas or Amfleets. They refuse to innovate (where's the DMUs they tested a decade ago, to rave reviews?), they can't manage projects right (numerous GAO on NEC reports, among others), and they have zero direction. At least now you've got a few agencies that can look past the F-40+4 bilevels crap that's made commuter rail in the US a laughing joke (Oh wow!!! 3 trains a day to chose from that are no faster than driving, and it only cost us 100 million to build!!!)
I could imagine Septa's RRD under Amtrak control. Two Cali cars sandwiched between 2 P-42s, running even slower schedules than now at a higher cost. But it's <b>standardized</b>!!!
Given how much Amtrak's fought with NY state about running the turboliners, do you really think they'd offer anything better than a loco plus 4 bilevels for commuter service? There's lots of places that are poster chldren for DMU, or even EMU operation Gunn talks a slick talk about the need for DMUs. Amtrak has exactly zero on order, and plans to buy a dozen 'in the future' for one line in CT. Amtrak's been 'experimenting' with DMUs in various services for years now (remember the Flexiliners on the early 90's?), and talking about it since day one (Big effort was the horrid SPVs which were a disaster from day one, and the result of NIH rearing it's ugly head - They couldn't have looked at what worked? No, design it with a clean sheet of paper and pray.)
On the other hand, there's at least 2 current active DMU orders of two different types at two different agencies, and a LOT of others standing on the sidelines ready to look at the results and maybe jump in. There's talk of electrifying lines out west. Heck, even Metra, as backwards and stuck in the 50's as they are, has floated the idea of DMU based services (amazing! a train that's not slow, smelly, and can actually brake and accelerate!)
As little as it is, the innovation in the US is happening at state run agencies, NOT at the federal level, where the biggest showing of the FRA/US DOT/Amtrak so far has been a 1/2 assed Acela project, a helicopter engine in a locomotive (because it worked so well the first dozen times it's been tried), a single line 'experiment' in implementing PTC, which is desperately needed in the US, and a lot of talk.
Yeah, the existing setup sucks, no doubt. But rolling it into Amtrak will just give Amtrak even less direction (if that's possible) and result in worse service overall, and kill any chance of making progress w.r.t. passenger rail.
It'd turn into a finacial hairball, too. I just don't see how putting it all under Amtrak would help anything - they can barely run their own trains as it is.
Maybe. I don't see it as an answer, and 30 years of Amtrak is a good reason to believe it wouldn't be.
<i>Let Amtrak run everything, Commuter or Intercity, NJT, SEPTA, MBTA, MN, LIRR, Metra, Metrolink, Sounder, whatever, if they run a train which recieves public monies, give it to Amtrak.</i>
Ugh, no. NY area transit agencies are already non responsive enough. Putting management in DC and putting them at the whim of congress would only make it WORSE. And, it would lead to the same lowest common denominatorism that's plagued Amtrak for 30 years. They can't see any 'solution' that doesn't involve Superliners or Acelas or Amfleets. They refuse to innovate (where's the DMUs they tested a decade ago, to rave reviews?), they can't manage projects right (numerous GAO on NEC reports, among others), and they have zero direction. At least now you've got a few agencies that can look past the F-40+4 bilevels crap that's made commuter rail in the US a laughing joke (Oh wow!!! 3 trains a day to chose from that are no faster than driving, and it only cost us 100 million to build!!!)
I could imagine Septa's RRD under Amtrak control. Two Cali cars sandwiched between 2 P-42s, running even slower schedules than now at a higher cost. But it's <b>standardized</b>!!!
Given how much Amtrak's fought with NY state about running the turboliners, do you really think they'd offer anything better than a loco plus 4 bilevels for commuter service? There's lots of places that are poster chldren for DMU, or even EMU operation Gunn talks a slick talk about the need for DMUs. Amtrak has exactly zero on order, and plans to buy a dozen 'in the future' for one line in CT. Amtrak's been 'experimenting' with DMUs in various services for years now (remember the Flexiliners on the early 90's?), and talking about it since day one (Big effort was the horrid SPVs which were a disaster from day one, and the result of NIH rearing it's ugly head - They couldn't have looked at what worked? No, design it with a clean sheet of paper and pray.)
On the other hand, there's at least 2 current active DMU orders of two different types at two different agencies, and a LOT of others standing on the sidelines ready to look at the results and maybe jump in. There's talk of electrifying lines out west. Heck, even Metra, as backwards and stuck in the 50's as they are, has floated the idea of DMU based services (amazing! a train that's not slow, smelly, and can actually brake and accelerate!)
As little as it is, the innovation in the US is happening at state run agencies, NOT at the federal level, where the biggest showing of the FRA/US DOT/Amtrak so far has been a 1/2 assed Acela project, a helicopter engine in a locomotive (because it worked so well the first dozen times it's been tried), a single line 'experiment' in implementing PTC, which is desperately needed in the US, and a lot of talk.
Yeah, the existing setup sucks, no doubt. But rolling it into Amtrak will just give Amtrak even less direction (if that's possible) and result in worse service overall, and kill any chance of making progress w.r.t. passenger rail.
It'd turn into a finacial hairball, too. I just don't see how putting it all under Amtrak would help anything - they can barely run their own trains as it is.
by PhillyBoy890
I think it would be a good idea for the R7 to run from Philly to NYC Penn Station the R7 would make ceartin stops in Philly
Start First Stop
30th St
Stops In Philly
(After 30th St)
Surburban Station
Market East Station
Temple University
Cornwells Heights
Trenton
Newark Liberty International Airport
Newark Penn
Hoboken
NY Penn.Thats what i think would be a cool solution.
Start First Stop
30th St
Stops In Philly
(After 30th St)
Surburban Station
Market East Station
Temple University
Cornwells Heights
Trenton
Newark Liberty International Airport
Newark Penn
Hoboken
NY Penn.Thats what i think would be a cool solution.
by Clearfield
PhillyBoy890 wrote:Stops In PhillyHow do you propose to get from Temple to Cornwells?
(After 30th St)
Surburban Station
Market East Station
Temple University
Cornwells Heights
Trenton
Newark Liberty International Airport
Newark Penn
Hoboken
NY Penn.Thats what i think would be a cool solution.
by SPUI
This map may be easier to read; the lines are color-coded by PRR/RDG (which corresponds to side of the Center City Commuter Connection except for the R1-Airport).
