SEPTA ALP-44

why does septa have only one ALP-44 why did they order it?

do the crews like it?

and if they don't why not sell it to NJT

septa only has 1 ALP-44 beacause a subway or street car or something went bad and the company gave septa the ALP. NJT has so many arrows, they could give septa some in return for the ALP, on the other hand NJT just puchased ( not sure how many) ALP-46's which are obviously beter than the 44's.

However, I do think Septa should trae all of there AEM-7's for the equal amount of NJT Diesels. This would be a good Idea for power outages in the winter when wires are knocked down and when power fails on a line, a diesel can go couple with the silverliner set and pull it ti it's destination. As a matter of fact NJT is phasing its fleet of Gp-40 4100 series out septa could make a deal right there.

To help clarify why they have the one ALP-44 instead of being given an AEM-7 is that the AEM-7 was out of production at the time and but the ALP-44 was in active production for NJT. Handing the ALP-44 to NJT would cause a locomotive shortage that could only be replaced by another one of a kind locomotive for SEPTA. SEPTA push pulls are different than NJT's even though they look the same on the outside. They are based on Metro Norths Shore Liners not the NJT Comet. I don't think the Arrow III's are compatible with the SL IV's anymore. I could be wronge. They were when first manufactured but the Arrows have had a major rebuild including new AC traction motors.

As mentioned several times in the past on this forum, SEPTA can't run diesels into the Center City tunnel. In the event of a major power failure requireing a diesel, chances are the signals are out as well as the dispatcher's radio. The trains still would not be going anywhere.

Njt4300 wrote:septa only has 1 ALP-44 beacause a subway or street car or something went bad and the company gave septa the ALP. NJT has so many arrows, they could give septa some in return for the ALP, on the other hand NJT just puchased ( not sure how many) ALP-46's which are obviously beter than the 44's.

To clarify what others have said, it was the delayed and overweight ABB N-5 order for the Rt100 which was the reason SEPTA got their single ALP44. The N-5s were so late and had enough problems in them that ABB (later ADtranz and now Bombardier) agreed to give SEPTA a locomotive for their troubles. As OH said, the AEM7 was by that time out of production and SEPTA got what NJT was then recieving. I believe 2308 may actually be an ALP44M, the same type as the later ALP44s which NJT recieved given the layout of the cab (I admit I've only glimpsed inside a few times at Suburban and 30th, and only looked inside NJT cabs at NYP and Trenton, so take my supposition with a grain of salt).

NJT may not like their Arrow fleet, or have any plans for any future EMUs, but having NJT and SEPTA swap Arrows for SEPTA's lone ALP44 would make little sense. The Arrows are likely compatible with the Silverliners post-rebuild, they were supposed to be compatible with the Arrow IIs and their notched controllers after the rebuild, so it is likely they would be at least somewhat compatible with the Silverliners. What Arrows NJT has will be needed at least until the Bilevels arrive, and most of them will be needed long after that. Nothing on the NEC can currently equal the capacity which the Arrows bring with their 12 car trains, and it is likely that the Bilevels will only equal that capacity (admittedly with slightly more comfort what with the 2+2 seating). The Push pull trains are limited to between 8 and 10 Comet cars, so it makes sense for NJT to leave them where they are at. Additionally the off-peak local trains on the Morristown and Erie branch to Gladstone, Great Notch and Dover would be difficult for a push pull train to do. The station spacing and all-stops nature points more toward operation with EMUs capable of fast acceleration rather than push pull trains.

The NJT ALP46s are modified versions of the Adtranz and now Bombardier Traxx series of modular electric locomotives. Specifically they most closely based on the Class 185 locomotives which Bombardier produced for Austrian/German/Dutch freight operator Railion. The ALP46 is of completely different heritage from the Swedish-derived ALP44, as the 46 can trace its roots back to the Class 120 locomotives which Henschell produced for DB back in the 1980s for initial InterCity service on the then under construction ICE NeuBauStreke. The Class 120 lead to the Class 101 after Henschell was purchased by Daimler Trasnsportation, and that locomotive has formed the basis for nearly all locomotives in Deutsche Bahn service. The ALP44 is of course a derivative of the AEM7, which was developed from the Swedish RC4 by Asea in the 1970s. The ABB ALP44 incorporates some features of the later RC6 and RC7 series into the design (the large ventilation intakes along the sides are notable similarities), and a slightly redesigned cab, but is otherwise very similar to the AEM7.

Njt4300 wrote:However, I do think Septa should trae all of there AEM-7's for the equal amount of NJT Diesels. This would be a good Idea for power outages in the winter when wires are knocked down and when power fails on a line, a diesel can go couple with the silverliner set and pull it ti it's destination. As a matter of fact NJT is phasing its fleet of Gp-40 4100 series out septa could make a deal right there.

Buying a series of locomotives simply because we are unable to adaquately maintain our infrastructure is a very poor way to run a railroad. Of course that'd be SEPTA's thinking. Why maintain wires when you can have a diesel train? Why maintain the tracks at all when you can run a bus? NJT's 4100 series GP40PH-2s are ancient locomotives which have been rebuilt multiple times and which have reached the age where it is time to send them to pasture. SEPTA already has a reputation for being a second-rate TA, and purchasing NJT's 40 year old diesel locomotives because we are unable to maintain our catenary and keep it from falling down in the winter or summer would do nothing to improve this. If we do need to buy new diesel locomotives for services to Reading, Quakertown, Kennett Square or even (::shudder::) Newtown it'd make far more sense for SEPTA to look at an an EMD F59PHI, the Alstom PL42AC, the GE P42 or an EMD 16-710G3B powered MP36PH-3 (as opposed to the 16-645F3B powered version recieved by Caltrain and Metra). An order of new locomotives and new cars for the services rather than wasting time and money looking for used equipment would do a much better job selling the new service than any TV, Radio or Newspaper ads, and we'd save money on maitenance and such in the long run. It'd be very nice if SEPTA could find an order to piggyback off of, but with NJT's PL42AC order likely nearing completion, and with the Comet V production reaching its peak it is probably too late for SEPTA to get in and get a great deal by letting NJT and the MTA do the engineering work on the locomotives or cars.

Wdobner wrote:The N-5s were so late and had enough problems in them that ABB (later ADtranz and now Bombardier) agreed to give SEPTA a locomotive for their troubles.

Well it's a little more complicated than that, as there was quite a row between SEPTA and ABB over who was really responsible for the delays and the cars' failure to meet specs. ABB argued that it was really SEPTA's fault, for specifications that were faulty in the first place, and for subsequent change orders. SEPTA disagreed, naturally, but when according to the contract terms, they could have had liquidated damages in cash, they instead negotiated a settlement for the locomotive, at something less than they could have gotten had they prevailed in court.

Wdobner wrote:I believe 2308 may actually be an ALP44M, the same type as the later ALP44s which NJT recieved given the layout of the cab (I admit I've only glimpsed inside a few times at Suburban and 30th, and only looked inside NJT cabs at NYP and Trenton, so take my supposition with a grain of salt).

Yes, our ALP44 is indeed an ALP44M.

Wdobner wrote:Buying a series of locomotives simply because we are unable to adaquately maintain our infrastructure is a very poor way to run a railroad. Of course that'd be SEPTA's thinking. Why maintain wires when you can have a diesel train? Why maintain the tracks at all when you can run a bus? NJT's 4100 series GP40PH-2s are ancient locomotives which have been rebuilt multiple times and which have reached the age where it is time to send them to pasture. SEPTA already has a reputation for being a second-rate TA, and purchasing NJT's 40 year old diesel locomotives because we are unable to maintain our catenary and keep it from falling down in the winter or summer would do nothing to improve this. If we do need to buy new diesel locomotives for services to Reading, Quakertown, Kennett Square or even (::shudder::) Newtown it'd make far more sense for SEPTA to look at an an EMD F59PHI, the Alstom PL42AC, the GE P42 or an EMD 16-710G3B powered MP36PH-3 (as opposed to the 16-645F3B powered version recieved by Caltrain and Metra). An order of new locomotives and new cars for the services rather than wasting time and money looking for used equipment would do a much better job selling the new service than any TV, Radio or Newspaper ads, and we'd save money on maitenance and such in the long run. It'd be very nice if SEPTA could find an order to piggyback off of, but with NJT's PL42AC order likely nearing completion, and with the Comet V production reaching its peak it is probably too late for SEPTA to get in and get a great deal by letting NJT and the MTA do the engineering work on the locomotives or cars.

There would be clearance issues with the F59PHI, and that is no longer produced by EMD. Similar clearance issuse exist with the MP36PH-3 on a lot of the SEPTA system. I've heard even an Amtrak F40PH is too high to even get into the upper level of 30th Street without grounding out the overhead wire, and the other locomotive models you mentioned above are a bit higher than an F40.

As a rule of thumb....if the locomotive is higher than the dynamic brake hump on a Silverliner IV....it won't fit through SEPTA's lowest clearances.