gokeefe wrote:Pretty sure the issue is AC. As I understand it the DC voltage on the third rail is basically the same as the voltage to the prime mover.
Not exactly. Prime mover is nothing more than a portable power plant providing electricity for the traction motors and HEP, so the "prime mover" in E-mode is literally the third rail or overhead wire bypassing the diesel power plant entirely (enough so that the diesel completely shuts off). Traction motors are all-AC these days because that's superior motor tech to older-style DC traction, and HEP is AC. Voltage gets stepped up/down, frequency-converted, and sliced/diced to various components accordingly; not every single thing runs at the same exact "raw" voltage as the source (most prominently: traction voltage vs. HEP voltage), so there is always a little bit of conversion going on as power is distributed to the loco's systems. A good, clean design with well-matched parts can help contain some of the complexity in juggling diesel prime mover vs. E-mode power sources and distributing them across all systems, keep the weight down, and keep the cost and maint complexity reasonable. This is why very highly vertically-integrated builders like Siemens, Bombardier, and in the past GE have a big leg-up on building workable duals vs. the small builders like MPI who don't have any 'pure' component selection hegemony or whatever pu-pu platter of various third-party vendor parts gets slapped lazily with an EMD builder's plate these days.
DC for E-mode is less costly and less bulky by weight and volume to equip a dual-mode locomotive with because DC power by its physical nature doesn't have to carry the transformers that any form of AC has to. That's why, for example, 1.5 kV DC Metra Electric has had bi-level EMU's for 40 years now with no major loss of seating from electrical components and third-rail dual locos into the tight confines NYP/GCT have been old hat for two-thirds a century...but you're only now seeing the first-ever FRA-compliant AC bi-level EMU's being ordered by NJ Transit and only now getting the morbidly obese ALP-45DP established as a mainstay fleet. Especially tough on the East Coast where it takes two AC transformers--one for 60 Hz and a much heavier one for 25 Hz--and ability to tap up/down from 12.5 kV to 25 kV to be able to have an AC vehicle that's fully portable across the NEC.
New York might've considered splitting the
Empire and MTA orders AC vs. DC if a modular "Charge-Sprint" could offer both flavors at the same unit price. But Siemens would have to sell the AC's at a modest loss in order to offer identical pricing, because the very nature of AC (and especially the mixed bag of multi-voltage, multi-frequency AC on the NEC) means paying for the transformer components you don't have to pay for with DC. And maintain them, too. So New York has no motivation to split the orders. If the combo order is going to be approaching 90 units, they can probably buy a half-dozen or more DC duals just from the component money they'd be saving not having to buy AC transformers at all for the
Empire contingent's E-mode cabinets. Unless the state gets NYP-ALB electrified at 25 kV AC for NYHSR before the heat death of the universe, it's always going to be more worth their while to pursue the ordering scale of the DC/third-rail variant to its logical end.
Though, like I said in the last post...sell 100 DC "Charge-Sprints" with 20-year Service & Support packages to New York and it just got a
HELL of a lot cheaper and easier for the next buyer to take a realistic gander at the AC version. If the only major difference is the extra transformer junk that gets stuffed in the E-mode cabinets for AC...then having that huge an installed base of
every other modular part in the loco brings the cost way down. So far down that it swallows the added cost of the unavoidable transformer extras
and then some. That's scale the ALP-45DP can't economically reach in its current design incarnation because as a genset engine instead of a conventional prime mover it's the
diesel half that blows out the Bombardier loco's cost of ownership. "Charge-Sprint" presumably being able to start out with the same stock QSK-95 power plant as the vanilla Charger means it'll have better cost control-via-scale on the half that'll be common to both DC and AC dual variants. When it's just the E-mode modules that need customization, and those E-mode modules are designed to require as few changes to anything else as possible whether they're plugged with DC or AC sources...then you start seeing some serious purchasing flexibility open up in the wake of New York's 75-100 unit order.