Roseville

There was a mention in the NJT forum on NJ.com of a website regarding the Roseville train station. The link was not given but I located what the person must have been referring to. It really has some great photos. In case anyone is interested here is the link:

http://www.thecanteen.com/railroad01.html

This particular page on that particular site shows the Roseville Avenue stations, at-grade and after put in the cut. Interestingly enough, the photo of the cut is taken prior to electrification. I never got a look at the current interlocking, so I'll have to ask the rest of the forum if the track and switch configuration shown is identical to today's configuration...?

IC -

These are rare photos of Roseville !

Amazingly, the switch connections in the 1890's photo is nearly identical to what NJT re-constructed 3 years ago - including the diamond ! Note however the absense of the 3rd track on the M&E ( ex-Lackawanna ) main.

The pre-electrification ( pre-1930 ) pic again has the diamond in place as it now once again exists today. However, the switch plants shown out on the main are entirely different than what NJT installed in 2001. The eastbound Montclair-Boonton track ( track #2 ), after crossing the main's westbound track ( track #3 ) at diamond, simply connects to the main's middle track ( track #1 ). Similarly, the Montclair-Boonton westbound track ( track #1 ) and the main's westbound track ( track #3 ) connect via a normal switch.

Now, heading a bit further east out on the main, NJT installed ( 2001 ) two new elongated high-speed switches that are parralel to each other....one from from track #3 to track #1 and one from track #1 to track #2.

The one pic not shown here is the track configuration that existed from sometime in the early-mid 1950's ( ? ) until 2001. At some point in the early 1950's the Lackawanna elected to single-track the then Montclair Branch connection to the main here.

I'll try and explain this as best I can.

The single-track connection occured EXACTLY where the Montclair-Boonton westbound track ( track #1 ) and the main's westbound track ( track #3 ) connect today.

However, the Lackawanna gradually re-aligned the Montclair Branch track #1 over onto the alignment of track #2 to access the passenger platform on the Montclair side of Roseville station. Heading west on the single track about 150 feet out of the station, there was a switch to resume a double-track ROW. In sum, the single-track ( obviously bi-directional ) was basically thru the station proper - 90% on the alignment of today's eastbound track #2.

A sidebar at this point....

There was indeed a concrete westbound platform at Roseville on the Montclair Branch and I believe remnants of same still exist there. Also, there was a 2nd switch just beyond the one resuming the double-track ROW. It led to a long 3rd/freight track that permitted access to the one-time modest yard and bakery siding just east of Ampere station as well as a siding to the large Worthington plant ( that had several storage tracks ) adjacent to Ampere station. This '3rd track' continued west thru Ampere station ( an island platform for westbound trains ) to a switch about 200 feet past the platform where it reconnected with westbound track #1. Thus, the Montclair Branch was a 3-track ROW from just west of Roseville station all the way thru the Ampere station. BTW, this gave Ampere station a very 'main line' look. Of interest is the catenary was constructed in 1930 with running wire over this 3rd track....at least it appears the Lackawanna gave some thought to this back then....and the evidence exists today particularly thru the area of the now gone Ampere station area ( note the cat structures next time thru here ).


Now, taking you back east from here back out onto the main just east of the junction....

Just east of this single-track connection, there were 3 standard ( slow speed ) switches out on the main. In order they were a switch from track #3 to track #1, then one from track #2 to track #1 ( rarely used in the 70's thru to 2001 ) and finally one from track #1 back to track #2. Two of the three were used nearly exclusively to route Montclair train movements.

WHEW !!!! Hope all this is quasi clear and I didn't succeed in putting you to sleep !

Questions/comments ?

Arrgh....forgot to add something to this para -


" However, the Lackawanna gradually re-aligned the Montclair Branch track #1 over onto the alignment of track #2 to access the passenger platform on the Montclair side of Roseville station. Heading west on the single track about 150 feet out of the station, there was a switch to resume a double-track ROW. In sum, the single-track ( obviously bi-directional ) was basically thru the station proper - 90% on the alignment of today's eastbound track #2. "

When the Lackawanna made this sinle-track connection they had to add an extention on to the point of the platform shared by the two lines ( the eastbound side of the Montclair Branch and the westbound side of the main's platform ).

This concrete extension was needed as a result of the re-alignment mentioned above.

In 2001, NJT had to remove this concrete extension in order to put back the two-track connection. Talk about coming full cycle, eh ? NJT put back in what was originally in place OVER 100 YEARS AGO !!!! I can't think of another place in the area where we have seen anything like this happening !

My finding the Roseville pictures got me looking for other old pictures of no longer existing stations. I found this one of Harrison:

http://kearnyalumni.com/showimage.html?listingid=113

What caught my eye in the early picture of the cut was to pristine nature of the walls - smooth and totally unmarked. Today they are a crumbling mess and the whole area is filled with graffiti.

Mark -

" What caught my eye in the early picture of the cut was to pristine nature of the walls - smooth and totally unmarked. Today they are a crumbling mess and the whole area is filled with graffiti. "

Do keep in mind that these concrete walls are now well over EIGHTY ( 80 ) years old ! The Lackawanna built things to last the test of time !

As to the graffiti, shopping carts, old mattresses and Gawd knows what else in the way of garbage that is routinely thrown over the fences from the 'homes' above in this area down on to the ROW cut below....the neighborhood went south 25 years ago and isn't getting any better.

Mark -

While in route to NYP last Friday afternoon, had a chance to briefly eyeball the Roseville Junction area....

Didn't see much if any junk/garbage along the main ROW....very little graffiti as well....pleasant surprise.

What I'd like to know is how the DL&W continued service while raising/lowering the line from grade. We see the before and after photos, but I'd sure love to see what the Roseville area looked like during the construction.

Its a very amazing project. Just imagine what it would have been like to rip apart an entire area today? NIMBY's would come out of the woodwork.

And just because it was all built using DL&W concrete, the Roseville cut will still be around 200 thousand years from now...

Tri-State Tom wrote:Mark -

While in route to NYP last Friday afternoon, had a chance to briefly eyeball the Roseville Junction area....

Didn't see much if any junk/garbage along the main ROW....very little graffiti as well....pleasant surprise.

I go through there every day. Looks like a lot of garbage to me (though you are right that there is less garbage right by Roseville than elsewhere in the cut, or even further west where the line is close to grade) and ANY graffiti I find offensive so I have a low tolerance for that.

sullivan1985 wrote:And just because it was all built using DL&W concrete, the Roseville cut will still be around 200 thousand years from now...

Actually, as we saw when part of the wall began to collapse about 18 months ago, and was replaced, the Roseville cut is in bad shape. Both retaining walls are in need of total replacement.

I have been told that the Roseville cut was the first grade seperation project undertaken by the DL&W, and as such, they were learning as they went. Later projects used much better concrete.

Also, if you are interested, look on the north side of the Roseville cut, just under the 280 overpass. You will see a small recess, with a new section of retaining wall, about 3 feet back from the existing wall. This is the section that had to be replaced as it had begun to colapse and was in danger of total failure. You could not tell from inside a coach, but on the head end it was quite obvious that the wall was leaning in towards the track area significantly. In fact, while in the rest of the cut there is enough room to stand between a train and the wall (still a bad idea), that section was so close it would hit the mirror on the side of the locomotive if it was not tucked in.

The rest of the cut is not in danger of immediate failure, however, more and more problems will continue to plague this area if the walls are not replaced.

It looks like a lot of water has built up and seeped from the Roseville wall over the years. This could be, given the hill and landmass that is north and even west (toward Grove St. station area). There might be a lot of underground water that brought some of this decay as well.

Sir -

Interesting comments.

AIR, Tabor's book doesn't mention the chronological 'order' of stations/areas in the grade separation project for the ex-DL&W Morris & Essex main.

I don't know if this project progressed east to west or visa versa.

If the work started in Newark, seems somewhat logical that improvements in concrete mix could have occured as this massive project moved forward.

Sirsonic wrote:

sullivan1985 wrote:And just because it was all built using DL&W concrete, the Roseville cut will still be around 200 thousand years from now...

Actually, as we saw when part of the wall began to collapse about 18 months ago, and was replaced, the Roseville cut is in bad shape. Both retaining walls are in need of total replacement.

I have been told that the Roseville cut was the first grade seperation project undertaken by the DL&W, and as such, they were learning as they went. Later projects used much better concrete.

Also, if you are interested, look on the north side of the Roseville cut, just under the 280 overpass. You will see a small recess, with a new section of retaining wall, about 3 feet back from the existing wall. This is the section that had to be replaced as it had begun to colapse and was in danger of total failure. You could not tell from inside a coach, but on the head end it was quite obvious that the wall was leaning in towards the track area significantly. In fact, while in the rest of the cut there is enough room to stand between a train and the wall (still a bad idea), that section was so close it would hit the mirror on the side of the locomotive if it was not tucked in.

The rest of the cut is not in danger of immediate failure, however, more and more problems will continue to plague this area if the walls are not replaced.

Really? wow, never though DL&W construction would fall apart... thanks for the correction...