Push Pulls and Homeland Security

In light of the events in New Orleans I've been thinking that SEPTA may want to rethink its strategy of being a MU only operation.

What happens if a disastrous event occurs in Philadelphia which requires a mass evacuation and SEPTA's electrical system for the railroad becomes incapacitated?

I think its safe to say that our highways would not be able to handle the current of traffic in the event of a natural or unnatural disaster. In that event, our bus system would be useless on congested roads. If SEPTA did not have the ability to operate electric trains due to any kind of system failure, our only option would be to rely on Amtrak's spare diesels to run our network. In light of that, I think it would be sound judement to keep the push pull fleet, with diesel backups for an event of this scale.

At the same time, it would be cost prohibitive to maintain a fleet of equipment solely for this purpose. However, this would make a sound argument that SEPTA should not be a single mode operation only. It would certainly be an added benefit to restoring any of the non-electrified lines within the SEPTA system. At the very least, the operation of diesel hauled lines would at least give us the capability of towing, if required, incapacitated MU's throughout the system in a certain event.

An argument could be made that should such a event occur, that alternative power could be obtained from Amtrak, NJT or one of the freight carriers in the area. However, if SEPTA operated diesel rail services, such equipment would already be within their reach and would not require special means to put them into service on SEPTA routes.

What do you think?

jfrey40535 wrote:What happens if a disastrous event occurs in Philadelphia which requires a mass evacuation and SEPTA's electrical system for the railroad becomes incapacitated?

I think Live 8 demonstrated SEPTA is not capable of managing a mass evacuation in the first place.

I agree. Inepta dropped the ball during the Live 8 concert, as well as other PLANNED events in the Philadelphia area. I think it's wishful thinking that they would have the forsight to take a proactive stance towards any catastrophe, act of God or manmade. It's really pathetic I think. If it doesn't involve a bus, SEPTA doesn't have a clue.[/quote]

I was thinking something along the lines of the city buying out the leases on the P/P equipment, letting SEPTA continue to use it, and reserving it for emergency use.

For that matter, since SEPTA is so inept, the city should also draft a mass transit evacuation plan for SEPTA to follow should such a need arise. I realize the plan would only be as effective as the disaster would allow (loss of electricity would render the subway useless), but creating certain types of backup, such as diesel standbys would be a good idea.

With Septa barely able to manage a normal schedule on a fair weather day, I don't hold much hope for its use as a means of mass evacuation. However, that has little to do with it being an m.u. operation. They do have their switchers, and if need be could get diesel power brought in from the West Chester RR and the New Hope & Ivyland RR. I don't know if this would help tho, especially in a situation where signal systems were down.

Also, SEPTA's maintenance of their Push-Pull fleet leaves much to be desired. I cannot count how many times I've seen the engine crap out on those engines during rush hour. It is a pity that they (SEPTA) don't use their PP equipment more practically than they do. I'm suprised they finally took the PP set from the Warminster Line (40mph, local stops, close stations) and moved it to the Neshaminy Branch. I wouldn't be suprised if they broke down during a mass evacuation.

I seem to recall that the former PRR catenary wire system was running during NYC's blackout; the signal system wasn't functioning though.

How fast could a railroad set up a "manual" signal system in the event of some manner of catastrophe requiring evacuation?

Don't the rules limit speed to 20mph with no visual signals? If there was a mass evacuation and everyone was moving in the same direction, maybe they could rely on radios for navigation.

Regardless, the CITY should have a plan, which should include some type of drills for SEPTA to follow. Honestly, I'm surprised no one else thought of this. It would be the quickest way out, just depends on how far you have to go.

Any plan that the city proposes would have to be in conjunction with SEPTA having more equipment in their fleet. Have you ever seen Powelton or Roberts Ave yards during rush hour. They are both empty. SEPTA uses every last available car during rush hour everyday. If you'll recall the SEPTA city division transit strikes in the last 15-20 years, the regional rail system is overwhelmed, and it seems the only planning SEPTA does for that is to herd people in CC stations like stubborn cattle only to have them crammed into 5 or 6 BUD cars, some of them having the 2+2 seating. If they haven't come up with a better way to move people yet, particularly after plenty of practice, there is little hope of improvement. All it takes is down wires, a snowstorm (if anyone recalls this past winter), switch failure, and SEPTA tells us the infamous saying, "Seek alternate means."

whovian wrote:I'm suprised they finally took the PP set from the Warminster Line (40mph, local stops, close stations) and moved it to the Neshaminy Branch.

Warminster still had a PP set, at least up until the most recent schedule change. West Trenton had one as well. I have no idea what happened at the schedule change though. Does West Trenton have 2 trips now? As I recall the "Neshaminy Limited" after the PP was using Silverliners and actually carried a heavier load.

Now there are two Push-Pull sets in West Trenton for the Bethayres-Market East express for am-pm rush. They took the one set out of Warminster not to long ago.

Do the P/P sets utilize the transit-style couplers with all the electrical and air connections built in? Or are they standard railroad knuckles? I think all the MU's have the integrated couplers, thus making it difficult to tow them with AEM7's / ALP44's if those are still equipped with regular couplers. Seems like making the two compatible would be an involved process under the best of circumstances, let alone on short notice such as in an emergency.

RDGAndrew wrote:Do the P/P sets utilize the transit-style couplers with all the electrical and air connections built in? Or are they standard railroad knuckles? I think all the MU's have the integrated couplers, thus making it difficult to tow them with AEM7's / ALP44's if those are still equipped with regular couplers. Seems like making the two compatible would be an involved process under the best of circumstances, let alone on short notice such as in an emergency.

Correct. The push-pulls have standard AAR couplers and are compatible with Amtrak and other commuter railroads' coaches. The MUs have spear couplers and are not compatible.

NJ Transit's Arrow III MU's have pin couplers that are not compatible with standard couplers. As a result, a compromise coupler is used in order for the MU's to be towed with other equipment.

Arrow III with compromise coupler