Proposed Service Reduction Schedules eff 1/23/05...

jfrey40535 wrote:You know it occured to me that while the RRD may carry fewer people, its probablly subsidizing the bus lines.

Neither side of the system (railroad or transit) is subsidizing the other. Neither side recovers its full operating costs, and both require external subsidies to pay the balance.

Now it is the case that there may be a difference of a point or three between them in cost-recovery percentage, but those numbers are necessarily crude, because they depend a lot on how you account for revenues and costs.

F'rinstance, there's no one right answer as to how to account for pass revenue when you can use a railroad pass on the transit and a transit pass on the railroad. And there are lots of different but equally valid ways to account expenses like the control center or top management. Change a few of those accounting practices around, and you can skew the numbers either way--to make the railroad look more cost-effective or the transit more cost-effective.

Ok, first i have been reading some of these and comparing currents with proposed and this is sick. I'd vote out all of your lawmakers and start over.

Also, your trains stop every 1,2,3 minutes. that's sick. I thought that it was a commuter rail system, not a rapid transit system. Closing some of these stations would save money also, as the train would not need to draw all of that juice. It could do more coasting if the stops were 6-8 minutes apart, resulting in less electricy used and money saved. This would solve some of your budget problems.

ST214

That is one of dozens of things that SEPTA needs to do to streamline its operations. However, most of the savings that can be squeezed out are still small compared to the overall costs of labor, maintenance and equipment. It also does nothing to help on the capital side of the budget to fund all of the projects that have been on hold for years slash decades.

The problem has two sources and running more efficiently is only half of the solution. You could fire everyone from F.M. on down and replace them with the best transit managers in the country; they'll still fail unless SEPTA also has a sufficient and dedicated source of funding.

When you're renovating an old building you know it'll need caulking and a coat of paint at some point. But if the framework's rotting, the structural fixes have to be made first.

JeffK wrote:That is one of dozens of things that SEPTA needs to do to streamline its operations. However, most of the savings that can be squeezed out are still small compared to the overall costs of labor, maintenance and equipment. It also does nothing to help on the capital side of the budget to fund all of the projects that have been on hold for years slash decades.

Let me second that, Jeff. SEPTA cannot balance its budget on internal economies. If they could get $30 million of the $62 million that way, I'd be pretty satisfied (the big enchilada is sharing medical plan cost increases with employees at levels typical of private-sector employers). You probably couldn't get much more than $10 million in service streamlining before you start having to make harmful cuts.

Regardless of what you think of management, getting funding caught up to the level originally intended when the last funding package passed is a necessary part of the solution.

Matthew Mitchell wrote:

Regardless of what you think of management, getting funding caught up to the level originally intended when the last funding package passed is a necessary part of the solution.

That's all fine and good, and I think most of us agree SEPTA cannot balance its budget even with streamlining measures. However, I think before they get a nickel of funding there are serious reforms that need to happen. I'm upset that not one legislator is talking about that. Rendell mentions "belt tightening" but its gotta be much more than that. They need to start operating in a way that will make people ride it. Run the buses and trains ontime, manage projects effectively (Route 15/MFL), maintain the equipment so it looks appealing to use and not like a barnyard (restrooms, MFL cars) and run effective service so that people don't have to stand during their commute.

Incidently, I noticed the feds had no problem in dropping another $10mil to re-study the studied SVM project.

The SEPTA Board just voted to override the city's veto and approved the contingency budget and service plan to be effective 1/23/05.

Septa's plain will mean the end of Septa as we know it. Septa's lack of political savvy is rediculous. Somewhere in their budget they should find money for a Political Stratigist, instead of their normal clown act.

Well it was nice having a transit system. Should only take a few months before everything does unravel. I know people aren't going to pay those fares. All I hear now is how people are going to go buy a car instead. Even if the state comes to help out, SEPTA isn't going to roll back the fare increases.

Time to stock up on tokens.

If they want to increase the fares, they should do it a little bit. Septa still has a lot of room for improvement. If they hike the fares too much, no one will use the service. The Philly area will become the "los angeles area of the east." Actually, the prices for public transit there are reasonable. Metrolink has some good prices, especially when I went out to Fullerton from LAUPT while visiting my brother in Santa Monica. Even the Big Blue Bus 10 route is much cheaper than some of the private bus companies in the NY area.

They don't want to increase fares, they have to increase fares.

At this point some fare increase is pretty much unavoidable. $3 a ride is steep, but not entirely ridiculous. It would have to be $5 or more to be ridiculous. As a gesture to riders, and to encourage longer trips, Septa ought to drop the zone transfer concept completely. Its difficult to enforce anyway, and should they ever go to a farecard system, they would likely treat transfers the same way new york did

Now you guys have made it impossible for me to do ANYTHING in Philly, no trips to Franklin Mills, no rides to King Of Prussia, no railfanning in the city, nothing. You idiots have cut my ties to this city to a very bare minimum [coming into Center City, working, then leaving Center City]. Because of your asinine action, I will keep my economic activity confined to New Jersey where I live. If I want any cool luxury item, I will make the trip to NYC and spend my money there, rather than go to Philly. In fact, it will be cheaper and faster to go to the Princeton area from Collingswood [PATCO/RiverLINE/NJT buses] than to go to K of P, or take the local runs to Moorestown or Cherry Hill.

Watching the COMPLETELY USELESS AND WORTHLESS Mayor Street grandstanding for the TV cameras was a joke, as well as watching Gov. Rendell [who found 30 mil to give to Comcast, not SEPTA, and who would rather talk about the Eagles, than discussing a solution to the SEPTA crisis] still insist that he won't "flex" those highway funds just to stave off this mess, makes me extremly happy I got out of this backwater state years ago.

I now say I'm proud I live in New Jersey. I live in a town that was an afterthought a few years ago, now it is a "Happening" place, a completely walkable, civilized and friendly town [Collingswood], that is safe and quiet at night. It's a far cry from the sewer that Philadelphia has become. SEPTA and the City of Philadelphia will wither and die, and I WONT GIVE A DAMN!

Yeah its not time to stock up on tokens, its time to vote with your car and stop using SEPTA. $3 is rediculous to ride on the El with its crummy seats, buses that don't keep schedule, trains that are late and that will probablly start running every 1-1/2 hours, station bathrooms that are unsanitary, buses with sticky floors and employees that don't care.

SEPTA is not better than driving. It costs more and takes longer. What's the point? Shut it down, carve it up, let someone else run it. This whole region has no transportation plan whatsoever. If you drive, you lose, if you take transit you lose even more.

its time to vote with your car and stop using SEPTA

What car? Remember the hundreds of thousands that use SEPTA because they have to. I live in Center City, there's no where for me to put a car if even if I wanted/needed one. I figure I can avoid the fare increases for a year or so by buying a couple hundred tokens.

Even with the increases and reductions there will still be plenty of people left without a choice. SEPTA will still be a better option than driving to many places within the city. Life will go on.