Princeton Junction Station Redevelopment

Train options explored

WEST WINDSOR - Replacing the local Dinky train with a quieter bus rapid transit line is a looming option for township residents and NJ Transit officials.

Another is the idea of building a European-style square over the NJ Transit parking lots at the Princeton Junction train station.

These concepts and others were explored Tuesday night at the first phase in what appears to be a long road toward redevelopment at the township's busy commuter station.

"I might be dead before (a town center) happens," mused an older member of the redevelopment advisory committee during the meeting.

Eric Fang, an engineering consultant hired by NJ Transit, spoke for most of the meeting about various scenarios that could replace existing modes of transportation and parking - such as the Dinky and the 2,200-space parking lot - with newer amenities in travel and a town center.

"I want to get an idea from (West Windsor) residents," Fang said at one point, in eliciting ideas from the committee about what it likes to redevelop.

The town center would likely surround a European-style - or Palmer Square-like - facility between the train tracks and Vaughn Drive, which runs through the expansive parking lots.

But building over the parking lots would mean finding other areas for commuters' vehicles. One of the more viable options would be to build a 2,800-space, five-story parking garage, Fang said.

The meeting was the start of developing a plan that will go to the township's planning board, said board chairman and committeeman Marvin Gardner.

"It was truly an exploratory meeting," Gardner said. "When we get a larger view of the residents' feelings (about redevelopment), we can move forward with a more rational approach."

He pointed out that the three public forums in the next two months will be very helpful in guiding Fang's designs.

Two forums have been scheduled for 8 p.m., July 20 and Aug. 10, said Thomas Clark, NJ Transit regional manager.

What are your thoughts?

Personally, I hope they add-on to the barebones station. It's too plain right now. A little innovation won't hurt.

To be honest, it sounds like an unrealistic, doomed to economic failure. A clear case of fantasy. I know, a bit harse but I think the reality of the dire need to expand daily parking at Princeton Junction instead of creating a town center with no apparent parking is more realistic. Since when is a diesel engine of a bus quiter than an electric motor of an Arrow III?

Can you imagine one of these buses replacing the Dinky?



It would cause more harm than good. The money spent on the removal of the tracks, building of the BRT roadway, and the fuel costs doesn't add up.

Can you imagine one of these buses replacing the Dinky?

I can't even imagine NJT investing in buses like that.

Would that be a Civis bus?

Whats the point of the sterring wheel if its on a dedicated roadway? Not like you can turn it, its in somewhat of a trench.

One thing I did notice during my last visit to Princeton Junction is that they finally tore down that abandoned house next to the station. It's about time! I wonder why that thing was abandoned there and left to deteriorate for so long.

Replacing the dinky with buses would be stupid. Light rail might make sense, if they can use the same kind of vehicles used on Hudson-Bergen (I can't imagine them wanting a unique vehicle just for the Princeton shuttle, from a maintenance perspective).

Steering column on BRT bus is for operation off dedicated busway—their purported "flexibility". Of course, one bit of flexibility that they will always lack is the ability to run bidirectionally without making a U-turn.

Kinki-Sharyo low-floor LRVs for Dinky? Tear down the high platforms? (A high platform was built in the late 1980s.) There are other LRVs out there that can use high platforms and operate on high voltage catenary wire...but once you go LRT, next question is where are you going to maintain them since you can't shuttle them down the NEC to the MMC like you could an Arrow.

Perhaps the bus would not be honking its horn as the dinky does on every trip it makes.

The article really combines two separate issues that are basically unrelated.

One is developing the large parking lot to make use of one of the last available sites for development in the heart of Princeton Township. This seems totally sensible and economically not only viable but desirable. Being right across from the McCarter Theater there it is a destination point. This development may or may not include a more elaborate station

However, what to do, if anything, with the dinky is totally a separate issue as what ever is done would just use the existing right of way.

What value is there to invest anything since there is already existing infrastructure that works fine. Unless NJT is planning for an MU-less world and would not want to commit an engine to the dinky. If something MUST be done I think that the dinky with its only stops at Princeton and Princeton Junction would be ideally suited for an automated light rail system.

jscribe wrote:Perhaps the bus would not be honking its horn as the dinky does on every trip it makes.

You'd be hearing the diesel engine though. Not too much quieter. Greater likelihood of accidents too, if the BRT route remains at-grade.

And if you want to stop the Dinky from the horn-honking, then what is required is removal of the grade crossings on its route, or installation of grade-crossing protection that would permit cessation of horn-blowing per the current NORAC rules.

Mark,

I think you're confused. You're thinking of the 'Princeton' station, which is on the stub line and has a small parking lot next to the Wawa and across from McCarter theater. The article references 'Princeton Junction', which is in West Windsor and is on the NEC. There have been murmers for a little while now to replace the acres of parking lots at Princeton Junction with some kind of mixed-use, transit-based development.

Anyway, I'm normally in favor of considering this kind of approach, but I don't think it will happen successfully in this site. Contemporary urban planners have typically been thinking of transit-based development in terms of rapid transit/light rail type service rather than high-speed intercity and commuter rail service like Princeton Junction sees. Furthermore, building a "new town center" has already been tried in the Princeton area (although it was designed before light-rail was a fad) - Princeton Forrestal Village. The retail there has never been a smashing success -- even after conversion to outlets (which seem to draw people in almost everywhere else) -- and much of the former retail space has now been converted again to office space.

I think any development like this will have a hard time succeeding at Princeton Junction because people can get the "real thing" in the actual town of Princeton.

I say redevelop the station and leave the dinky. Busses can't compete with the dinky in terms of reliability, speed and getting stuck in traffic (which is an impossibilty for the dinky.)

What amazes me is that there seemes to be no mention of how overcrowded the existing parking situation is at PJ. I know guys that drive from Cranbury and farther south to park at PJ for their NYP commutes. They tell me that after 6:30am, you can forget about parking. You would think that a primary goal would be expansion of parking facilities along with some mixed-use development.

Of course if they do make PJ a "destination" then it would seem to make sense to restore the Dinky (albeit on a slightly modifed route) to hit dowtown Princeton. Once could argue for a LRT replacement then.

But before they do that, they need to do something for RUTGERS first - a more pressing need with much larger potential ridership.

R-U RAH!

I'm all for town centers. Haveing grown up in Princeton it didn't appreciate having one until I moved to a town without one. But Princeton Junction is not a good place to build one. The location isn't that good for one. It's far removed from most of the residents of West Windsor and it's only a few more minutes to get into Princeton or many stores on Rt 1, many of which are in West Windsor.

As mentioned, the nearby Forestal Village never worked out from a retail standpoint except for the food court. Nearby Plansboro is also trying to put in a town center but it seems to have stalled recently. Town centers are nice but they need to be in the center of town.

GandyDancer wrote:But before they do that, they need to do something for RUTGERS first - a more pressing need with much larger potential ridership.

R-U RAH!

Amen to that brother!