North Carolina NCDOT-Amtrak Carolinian Service

You would think?!?!

Heck it leaves NYP late as often as not.

Due to track work somewhere on the CSX, the Carolinian for 6/22 was re-routed from Greensboro to Washington over the NS through Danville, Lynchburg and Charlottesville. I think the re-route was only announced about 3 days ahead of time (I was out of town and missed the notice) but I know a few people who rode just to take a day trip over the route. Wish I could have joined them.

In addition due to NS track work the Piedmont is operating from Raleigh to Salisbury this week and next (weekdays) with a bus connection from Salisbury to Charlotte.

I was looking for a business class upgrade for my Baltimore-Charleston (#89 Palmetto) trip next month, and found out that I'll be on a "bus bridge" from Richmond-Rocky Mount (yay, MORE trackwork!). Turns out, I'm the lucky one, unless Amtrak changes their plans for the Carolinian: Monday-Friday, 79/80 are completely out of the system, "no bus bridge for you."

Anyone know what is going on, or why? I would think North Carolina would go through the roof when its popular, state subsidized train gets the shaft.

Of course, there is nothing official yet on the Amtrak website about all this. These things can't be rushed, I guess.

JPS

All I've heard is that the Carolinian and Piedmont are both cancelled completely on the following dates:
March 2, 9, 16, 29, 30 and April 6, 20, all of which are Mondays, except for the 29th, which is a Sunday.

Since the Piedmont is involved, I suspect it has something to do with track work between Raleigh and Charlotte. If I were to guess, I'd say they're doing some work to tie in the new double track between Cox and Hoskins (Greensboro & High Point). Could be wrong, though; other thoughts that spring to mind are budget cuts, or something to do with the locomotive that's been out of service since it hit a brick truck last month.

The service is fairly popular, yes, but it's grown that way entirely due to word of mouth. There has been no big marketing push so it's still not what I would consider a very publicly visible or well known service, hence the lack of outrage at the cancellations. The most visible piece of advertising are some blue highway signs posted along I-85 and I-40 that rather generically advertise the NCDOT rail division. Probably more than half of the people along the corridor in NC have some vague idea that Amtrak serves their city but really have no idea where it goes or what the schedule is like. Besides, the Carolinian runs full enough as it is.

Orulz is correct. The notice we were given last week by NCDOT indicated that due to track tie ins and signal tie ins between Cox and Hoskins there were to be cancelations, mostly on Mondays, a lower travel day. I assume that NS requested the change to provide work windows and DOT went along, though I would have like to see a bus bridge, as both the Piedmont and Carolinian are scheduled through this segment about the same time. With the state's and DOT's money situation as it is, buses probably cost much more then the lost revenue. NS freights will also be held up during this period.

The title here should be changed to Monday cancellations, not M-F.

The annual meeting of the NC Train Host Association and DOT is on Sat 3/7, so I hope we will learn more about DOT's thinking at that meeting.

The Palmetto shut down during the week for 3 weeks in the Fall and here's the reason. These tracks are used so much for both freight and for passenger trains that the tracks have to be replaced on a regular basis. In March the Palmetto is doing the bridge bus thing because too many people wanted to travel during the week and couldn't. I go from either Dillon or Fayetteville up to Baltimore since moving down here last year. My travel will only be on the weekend (Friday included). South of Richmond, where Petersburg is, is a large shipping area for freight. I can see how these tracks get overused. Hope this answers the "Why" part of your question.

matthewsaggie wrote:The title here should be changed to Monday cancellations, not M-F.

Perhaps for the Piedmont, but the Carolinian is "out" of the reservation system Monday thru Friday.

**Edit: Carolinian is apparently running Rocky Mount-Charlotte. I'm pretty sure it wasn't, before. As such, it will likely share the Palmetto's bus bridge between Richmond and Rocky Mount, once Amtrak gets it in the system.

Ok, THIS will be confusing. Here is the service alert off of the Amtrak Website. Covers 79/80, 73/74 and 89/90. Some days, especially 79/80 won't run at all, many weekdays it will run CLT/RGH/CLT only. The rest are all effected as spelled out. Its going to be a mess. Don't know what days I'll be working, but we will have to see.

Service Alert: Carolinian Trains 79 and 80 and Palmetto Trains 89 and 90 — Service Changes and Cancellations on Select Dates March 2 - April 20

Carolinian Trains 79 and 80

Track work being performed by Norfolk Southern Railway will affect the Carolinian service, as described below:

Trains 79 and 80 Cancelled March 2, 9, 16 and 30 & April 6 and 20

Trains 79 and 80, which normally operate between New York and Charlotte, will be canceled on these six days.

Train 80 Cancelled between Charlotte and Raleigh March 29 Only

On March 29, Train 80 will be canceled between Charlotte and Raleigh. The train will operate between Raleigh and New York only.

Carolinian Trains 79 and 80 and Palmetto Trains 89 and 90

Track work being performed by CSX Transportation will affect Trains 79, 80, 89 and 90 on the following dates:

Monday - Friday
March 9 - March 13
March 16 - March 20
March 23 - March 27
March 30 - April 3

Monday - Thursday
April 6 - April 9

Trains 79 and 80 Canceled Between New York and Raleigh

Trains 79 and 80 will operate between Charlotte and Raleigh only. Trains 79 and 80 will be canceled between Raleigh and New York, and alternate transportation will not be provided. Contact Amtrak for other travel options between these cities.

Trains 89/1089 and 90/1090

Trains 89 and 90 — Petersburg Service Canceled

Trains 89 and 90 will not stop at Petersburg during this period. Contact Amtrak for other travel options to and from Petersburg.

Southbound Trains 89/1089 — Motorcoach Service Between Richmond and Rocky Mount

Train 89 will operate from New York to Richmond, where passengers will be provided motorcoach service to Rocky Mount. At Rocky Mount, passengers continuing south may board Train 1089, which will make all remaining stops on the Palmetto's route.

Schedule Changes

Quantico and Fredericksburg Service

During this period, Train 89 will stop at Quantico at 10:40 am and Fredericksburg at 10:59 am.

Rocky Mount — Savannah

Train 1089 will depart Rocky Mount two hours later (4:02 pm) than the schedule of Train 89 and will operate two hours later to Savannah and all intermediate stations.

Northbound Train 90/1090

Motorcoach Service Between Rocky Mount and Richmond

Train 1090 will operate according to the schedule of Train 90 to all stations on the Palmetto route from Savannah to Rocky Mount. At Rocky Mount, passengers will be provided motorcoach service to Richmond, where passengers continuing north may board Train 90 to New York and all intermediate stations.

Schedule Change Between Richmond and New York

Train 90 will depart Richmond one hour later (6:25 pm) than the published schedule and will operate one hour later to New York and all intermediate stations.

Important Information

Checked Baggage Service Changes

Checked baggage will only be available on portions of the Palmetto served solely by a train. Checked baggage will not be available for travel that includes motorcoach service.

Unaccompanied Minor Travel

Unaccompanied minors are not allowed to travel on the motorcoach portion of the Palmetto service. Contact Amtrak for more information on the Unaccompanied Minor policy.

We appreciate your patronage and apologize for any inconvenience you may experience.




PSN 209-393

Well, that explains why it took them a while to get the notice up . . . !

I don't understand why the Palmetto gets the bus bridge treatment and the Carolinian doesn't (with the exception of the days its canceled on the southern portion, too). They could run passengers to Richmond on a combined 79/89, share the bus bridge to Rocky Mount, and then have 79/89 run separately Rocky Mount to their normal destinations. As it is, Charlotte-bound passengers only have the 2am-if-on-time Crescent. Bus capacity could be limited, but that could be controlled through limited reservations . . . at least it would increase options.

Rocky Mount has the bus terminal right next to the station. Maybe they couldn't get a bus company to commit that much to transporting train passengers on the Carolinian.

Left Saturday out of Richmond, pretty much on time. Wound up arriving in Charlotte over two hours late. Had to wait on a siding down by Collier Yard south of Petersburg for awhile for a northbound Amtrak. Seem to be a lot of slow orders on the way down. Then, a big delay just west of Greensboro. The explanation we got was the Piedmont was having a lot of trouble negotiating a new switch that NS had put in. Then when they passed we went to the switch, stopped for awhile and crawled over it. On the bright side, the crew was very friendly and the conductor was very informative about the situation.
The return trip tuesday morning started off fine, but we seemed to go slow a lot of the way. Nice to see a lot of new 2nd track being built between High Point and Raleigh. Finally got back onto tha "A" line at Selma. I am still amazed how CSX was allowed to rip up so much of the second track. We stopped a couple times to lets trains pass and I counted at least 4 times CSX trains that were just sitting, sometimes three deep waiting for us to pass. I know it would cost a lot of money to put double track back in these spots, but CSX, not to mention Amtrak, has got to be losing a ton of money in time, labor and fuel for all of these trains to be be sitting and waiting. I won't even get into how much better rail traffic would be if the "S" line were still intact all the way.....A lot of CSX track crews working through NC.
On the bright side, again the crew was very nice, and the conductor was very imformative. But we have a loooooong way to go to ever get close to "high speed" rail. At this point, medium speed would be great.

One last note, There is still an existing old wooden water tower on the "A" line. It's just south of Enfield NC, about MP 103 on the east side of the tracks.


Win

Thanks for the report. I've ridden number 80 with the same experiences that you had on your trip (i.e., traffic, work crews, and slow orders) and the same result---two hours late arriving at WAS. Fortunately, as was the case with your experience, the Raleigh-based crew was pleasant and the conductor kept us informed about each delay. So far, I've had better luck on number 79 than you did---the latest I've been on that train was thirty minutes. However, even an on-time Carolinian is still an hour longer than driving.

I like the Carolinian. Still, considering how slow this train is compared to drive time, I'm amazed that it's ridership has increased as much as it has in the past few years.

I am wondering about the placement of the Business Class/Cafe car on Amtrak's Carolinian. I am planning a trip on it in May and I want to take pictures out the back. If there is a good chance I'll get blocked by the Business Class section I'll need to buy an upgrade so if anyone knows how the trainsets are arranged that would be very helpful.

Jersey_Mike wrote:I am wondering about the placement of the Business Class/Cafe car on Amtrak's Carolinian. I am planning a trip on it in May and I want to take pictures out the back. If there is a good chance I'll get blocked by the Business Class section I'll need to buy an upgrade so if anyone knows how the trainsets are arranged that would be very helpful.

Mike, Business class is the 1st car and the cafe car is the 2nd car on the Carolinian. Everything after cafe is just coach.

Note however, if you plan on standing in the vestibule, the conductor may remind you that is against the rules and ask you to move back into the main compartment of the car.

(That said, I've seen some conductors really not care (one even commented on the view), some politely remind me of the rules and one who was just plain rude about it. In all cases though, once reminded, I complied. It's their train after all, I'm simply renting space on it for the trip.