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High Speed Rail HSR (Houston - DFW Dallas Fort Worth) (FKA Texas Central )

Discussion related to Amtrak also known as the National Railroad Passenger Corp.

Moderators: GirlOnTheTrain, mtuandrew, Tadman

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Re: High Speed Rail HSR (Houston - DFW Dallas Fort Worth) (FKA Texas Central )

 #1640716  by markhb
 
NH2060 wrote: ↑Fri Mar 15, 2024 9:43 pm ]Because that is *LITERALLY* the biggest selling point for taking the train between 2 particular city pairs. Kinda hard to successfully sell it as “you can conveniently board our trains 5 miles outside the heart of the downtown area”. If the terminal is located right next to a busy and fast light rail/subway/commuter rail line you might be able to sell that to the public, but otherwise (particularly if fighting through rush hour traffic that could make you miss said train)? Nope.
My point is that "downtown" CityX might not be a particularly useful or convenient endpoint for the majority of potential users, and in the case of Houston's downtown (which I didn't visit on my one trip there, but looking at Google Maps I assume it's the area inside the I-10/45/65 loop) it might not even be a very relevant stop compared to one or another of the other skyscraper districts, or just a spot on one of the beltways that's convenient to the highway for "last 20 miles" by Uber. Let the service be "we'll get you from the Metroplex to a place that's convenient for everyone to scatter from.". Not everyone is interested in going "downtown" unnecesssarily.

Re: High Speed Rail HSR (Houston - DFW Dallas Fort Worth) (FKA Texas Central )

 #1640718  by eolesen
 
I worked in downtown Houston for five years... yes, there's a light rail. And it goes a few places, and works for commuters who don't want to pay for parking downtown, or if you're going to the Univ of Houston or Rice campuses just off downtown. The ends are "transit centers" with connections to buses or park & rides. Parking in downtown runs $200+ a month compared to $40 at a park & ride plus the daily fare, so it's not a bad option. Especially if you're only going in 2-3 days a week (many garages aren't discounting monthly rates for less use)

But really, that seems to be about it for regular use vs. exceptions. It's pretty much empty before 8am and after 6pm.

The only time I saw it reasonably full was going to the Rodeo and stadium complex grounds, and speaking for those I rode with, it was mostly people who were going directly from work and returning later to get their cars for the drive home....

Re: High Speed Rail HSR (Houston - DFW Dallas Fort Worth) (FKA Texas Central )

 #1641143  by Tadman
 
I've done a bit of Houston light rail riding (yes to the rodeo and a ball game) and it is as it sounds. Someone said "we need light rail" and they got it. It's a bit better than Buffalo but certainly not on par with Dallas, let alone the other four biggest cities in the US for transit (chicago, NY, LA, Philly). Something like MARTA would've been much better, especially with servie to IAH and Hobby on a north-south line and Energy Corridor on a west line.

Re: High Speed Rail HSR (Houston - DFW Dallas Fort Worth) (FKA Texas Central )

 #1642658  by Jeff Smith
 
"Train Daddy" is for it: NBCDFW.com
Amtrak is now driving Dallas to Houston bullet train proposal

"This is very much a project that Amtrak is now leading," said Andy Byford (aka "Train Daddy"), Amtrak's Vice President of High-Speed Rail Development
...
According to Andy Byford, details of the agreement between Amtrak and Texas Central are subject to a non-disclosure agreement but much of the work previously done has been helpful for planners. Amtrak staff is now doing intense due diligence over where the project stands and the next steps. The transition includes working through federal environmental approval, the sign-off for the Japanese technology behind the bullet train, and a court decision giving the project eminent domain authority.

Many significant hurdles remain for the idea but Byford said he's optimistic about what he's seen so far. Amtrak joined the project with Texas Central in 2023 and submitted it to the Federal Railroad Administration's Corridor ID program. That program acts like a pipeline of projects to get priority funding. Tuesday, the Amtrak leader gave a full-throated endorsement of the project, arguing it's the next best route in the country for high-speed rail.
...

Re: High Speed Rail HSR (Houston - DFW Dallas Fort Worth) (FKA Texas Central )

 #1642742  by John_Perkowski
 
Jeff Smith wrote: ↑Sat Apr 20, 2024 11:05 am "Train Daddy" is for it: NBCDFW.com
Tuesday, the Amtrak leader gave a full-throated endorsement of the project, arguing it's the next best route in the country for high-speed rail.
...


Does that mean it will have more competent construction management than California?

Re: High Speed Rail HSR (Houston - DFW Dallas Fort Worth) (FKA Texas Central )

 #1642756  by eolesen
 
Someone more knowledgeable in "Buy America" will need to explain how can Amtrak take the lead on what was a private project being underwritten by foreign consultants that was planning to use Japanese technology and rolling stock....

Re: High Speed Rail HSR (Houston - DFW Dallas Fort Worth) (FKA Texas Central )

 #1642768  by RandallW
 
eolesen wrote: ↑Mon Apr 22, 2024 8:57 pm Someone more knowledgeable in "Buy America" will need to explain how can Amtrak take the lead on what was a private project being underwritten by foreign consultants that was planning to use Japanese technology and rolling stock....
"Japanese technology and rolling stock" does not mean "made in Japan". The planned trainsets (per Wikipedia) are developed by JR Central and JR West and built by multiple manufacturers, including both Hitachi and Kawasaki. Kawasaki appears to have an existing capability to build these in Nebraska if needed and Hitachi is building a railcar plant in Maryland, so just getting the right vendor to build these could meet "Buy America" requirements.

On a more speculative note, Amtrak could get Texas Central to redesign using the rolling stock requirements from CA HSR and/or Brightline West--since Hitachi has experience with both Japanese and European high speed train designs, it could open the possibility of three different manufacturers of HSR that could all run interchangeably on the same lines.

Re: High Speed Rail HSR (Houston - DFW Dallas Fort Worth) (FKA Texas Central )

 #1642791  by eolesen
 
And what about Salini/WeBuild for construction and Renfe for operations?

Those contracts are already awarded.

Amtrak can't just step in and undo that unless the entity declares bankruptcy. But that's been the plan all along.... defraud the investors and then make taxpayers bear the final cost of a white elephant project.

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Re: High Speed Rail HSR (Houston - DFW Dallas Fort Worth) (FKA Texas Central )

 #1642797  by RandallW
 
I wasn't aware that contracts can't be renegotiated or that designs for construction that hasn't begun can't be changed. The moment federal funding gets involved (unless the original partners anticipated it), it will change things.

That said, I have learned that the difference in platform height between the Shinkansen standard and the CA HSR standard is only 4/5 of an inch, so provided the platform-center of track dimensions aren't too different between the two designs (the existing Shinkansen are 11' wide--I can't find anything about the planned equipment width for CA HSR or for the Caltrain Stadler KISS units), its likely the mechanical envelopes aren't that different between CA HSR and Texas Central.

Re: High Speed Rail HSR (Houston - DFW Dallas Fort Worth) (FKA Texas Central )

 #1642812  by HenryAlan
 
eolesen wrote: ↑Tue Apr 23, 2024 8:50 am Amtrak can't just step in and undo that unless the entity declares bankruptcy. But that's been the plan all along.... defraud the investors and then make taxpayers bear the final cost of a white elephant project.
It's not clear to me that this is what has happened. The article basically says Amtrak is helping with the project. That could mean they have been hired as a consultant or provider of some other services that Texas Central wants, such as project management, lobbying, the list goes on and on. As two private corporations, there is not prohibition against all sorts of arrangements that could be in place between the two railroads.

Re: High Speed Rail HSR (Houston - DFW Dallas Fort Worth) (FKA Texas Central )

 #1642829  by John_Perkowski
 
Admin note

If you are a contract law attorney, we invite you to share your knowledge here.

Re: High Speed Rail HSR (Houston - DFW Dallas Fort Worth) (FKA Texas Central )

 #1642832  by eolesen
 
RandallW wrote: ↑Tue Apr 23, 2024 9:33 am I wasn't aware that contracts can't be renegotiated or that designs for construction that hasn't begun can't be changed. The moment federal funding gets involved (unless the original partners anticipated it), it will change things.
Oh, I'm sure that Amtrak could buy out Renfe and WeBuild. And the Japanese funds.

That's possibly why the Texans Against HSR group is apparently lobbying Congress to see if the Foreign Agent Registration Act was possibly violated by lobbying Amtrak to build a project that benefits Italian, Spanish and Japanese interests, and possibly involves Japanese sovereign funds....

https://www.kbtx.com/2024/04/09/departm ... 26IgtjnMVX

Re: High Speed Rail HSR (Houston - DFW Dallas Fort Worth) (FKA Texas Central )

 #1642837  by STrRedWolf
 
RandallW wrote: ↑Tue Apr 23, 2024 9:33 am I wasn't aware that contracts can't be renegotiated or that designs for construction that hasn't begun can't be changed. The moment federal funding gets involved (unless the original partners anticipated it), it will change things.

That said, I have learned that the difference in platform height between the Shinkansen standard and the CA HSR standard is only 4/5 of an inch, so provided the platform-center of track dimensions aren't too different between the two designs (the existing Shinkansen are 11' wide--I can't find anything about the planned equipment width for CA HSR or for the Caltrain Stadler KISS units), its likely the mechanical envelopes aren't that different between CA HSR and Texas Central.
If I remember the latest regulations, you can't use regular 11' wide Shinkansen stock as the limits are 10' 6" wide. They'll have to trim it down some.

Re: High Speed Rail HSR (Houston - DFW Dallas Fort Worth) (FKA Texas Central )

 #1642869  by electricron
 
STrRedWolf wrote: ↑Tue Apr 23, 2024 7:25 pm If I remember the latest regulations, you can't use regular 11' wide Shinkansen stock as the limits are 10' 6" wide. They'll have to trim it down some.
If Texas Central builds bespoke tracks and platforms to match the bespoke Shinkansen trains, 11 feet wide or less, it works. All along, Texas Central has repeatedly stated a bespoke system.
If Amtrak prefers a universal system, that can be arranged with just a few design changes.
Either way, we're making too much fuss over nothing, making a mountain over a molehill.
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