Amtrak HHP-8 Discussion: Use, Reliability, Disposition

It lives!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PLQAL9tPiDg

How exactly was the HHP demotored? It might be that they left the HEP part active? That being if on an overnight layover the HHP could provide HEP if a short section of CAT was provided at the layover spur, track, yard, etc.. That for the HHP.

west point wrote: ↑Mon Oct 24, 2022 10:50 pm How exactly was the HHP demotored? It might be that they left the HEP part active? That being if on an overnight layover the HHP could provide HEP if a short section of CAT was provided at the layover spur, track, yard, etc.. That for the HHP.

I'm pretty sure they pulled the pans off the top so I'm not sure how much it can do on its own now other than being a weighted, controllable shell.

Hopefully we'll see more of this experiment for the variety and it'll be funny to see a former electric in non-electrified territory.

Be sure to note that unit has been renumbered to 90691 - the series Amtrak reserves for non-powered varietals.

Must wonder if there is a provision within the lease agreement Amtrak used to acquire these units requiring they be used so much in a period. Might there be a provision subjecting them to some kind of ad valorem tax by one jurisdiction or the other if they are not used and become non-operating property? I don't claim to know.

ST Saint wrote: ↑Mon Oct 24, 2022 11:19 pm I'm pretty sure they pulled the pans off the top so I'm not sure how much it can do on its own now other than being a weighted, controllable shell.

Hopefully we'll see more of this experiment for the variety and it'll be funny to see a former electric in non-electrified territory.

I can see it now in context of my writing: "Yeah, they ripped the pano's off in the first place, then progressively gutted them down to just controls and storage. This is the first time these had a proper prime mover in them since 2207."

did Amtrak buy out the leases?

west point wrote: ↑Wed Oct 26, 2022 11:30 pm did Amtrak buy out the leases?

Also didn’t they get in trouble for some sort of lease violations a while ago? Not long the ACS-64s were put in service?

The HHP8s owned by Philip Morris were later purchased outright, as earlier mentioned.

Bracdude181 wrote: ↑Wed Oct 26, 2022 11:43 pm

west point wrote: ↑Wed Oct 26, 2022 11:30 pm did Amtrak buy out the leases?

Also didn’t they get in trouble for some sort of lease violations a while ago? Not long the ACS-64s were put in service?

They did to settle a lawsuit with Phillip Morris over those leases.

Interesting to learn that Amtrak now has ownership of at least some of the HHP-8's; now they can do as they please with the units.

Baring something such as increase in Downeaster frequencies, could Amtrak have visions of, say, a bi-directional Roanoke-Boston train without any enroute engine changes? Would that ever be a "picture taking fantasy" with the former HHP-8 NPCU on one end and a P-42 and ACS-64 on the other!!!!

I guess, but could easily be mistaken, that F-40's cannot clear into NYP, so acquisition of any of the HHP-8 units could open up more bi-directional running over the Corridor.

Finally, if one wonders why a cigarette maker becomes a locomotive lessor, it's simply a case of a buyer of capital meeting a seller of same in the marketplace. I recently learned of how a small software developer needing capital went to the Chrysler/Stellantis financing subsidiary for such. Chrysler then sold that paper to IBM who disbanded the developer after taking ownership of their patents and offering jobs to the employees.

Safe to say transactions such as this go on every day.

Gilbert B Norman wrote: ↑Thu Oct 27, 2022 7:26 am Baring something such as increase in Downeaster frequencies, could Amtrak have visions of, say, a bi-directional Roanoke-Boston train without any enroute engine changes? Would that ever be a "picture taking fantasy" with the former HHP-8 NPCU on one end and a P-42 and ACS-64 on the other!!!!

I'm not sure if the DownEaster is already in push-pull operation. Let me check with my Boston friend who's ridden it regularly... two Bostonites say it's already push-pull, with a "Cabbage" at the non-engine end.

I guess, but could easily be mistaken, that F-40's cannot clear into NYP, so acquisition of any of the HHP-8 units could open up more bi-directional running over the Corridor.

The EMD F-units are too tall by over a foot. By comparison, the FL9 is 15' exactly (and I had to cut it down by 6 inches to make it fit everywhere).

Finally, if one wonders why a cigarette maker becomes a locomotive lessor, it's simply a case of a buyer or capital meeting a seller of same in the marketplace. I recently learned of how a small software developer needing capital went to the Chrysler/Stellantis financing subsidiary for such. Chrysler then sold that paper to IBM who disbanded the developer after taking ownership of their patents and offering jobs to the employees.

Safe to say transactions such as this go on every day.

I would say more "diversification of portfolio" with a leasing team, used for cash-strapped agencies. In this case, P-M bought the HHP-8's from Amtrak, and then lease them back to Amtrak could continue to use them. Amtrak would make lease payments over their life (as long as they kept them in good shape). Of course, history happened, and Amtrak ended up buying out the lease.

The Downeaster is and always has been push-pull with ex-F40 NPCUs on the "south" or Boston-facing end. This is to eliminate the need to turn equipment and also allows a train to operate all the way into the North Station terminal (the tracks extend several car lengths underneath the TD Garden sports arena and locomotives are prohibited under the building). An HHP-8 NPCU would fit the bill just as well.

Interesting that Amtrak would convert HHP-8s in this manner, unless they really need to get rid of the F40 NPCUs sooner than later for some reason. The Downeaster route is one of those that is planned within the next 5 years be assigned new Siemens Venture "Intercity Trainsets" which will have cab coaches at one end.

jwhite07 wrote: ↑Thu Oct 27, 2022 8:29 am *SNIP*
Interesting that Amtrak would convert HHP-8s in this manner, unless they really need to get rid of the F40 NPCUs sooner than later for some reason. The Downeaster route is one of those that is planned within the next 5 years be assigned new Siemens Venture "Intercity Trainsets" which will have cab coaches at one end.

The F40s are much older than the HHP-8s. While the Hippos had their issues which resulted in an early withdrawal from service, I don't recall any of those issues being related to the running gear or controls. Plus, like was mentioned above, the F40s are too tall for the NEC so the Hippos would give Amtrak a cab car that could go anywhere.

I think Mr. White is being "a bit optimistic" when expecting to see RailJets (whoops, can't use that name; it belongs to OBB and CD) on the property and in revenue service.

Mr. Norman, Amtrak's plan is to use ICTs on the Downeaster. Page 125 in Amtrak's asset plan: https://www.amtrak.com/content/dam/proj ... Y22-27.pdf

Perhaps the optimism refers to when, but they're on order and they're coming. Amtrak won't run Amfleets forever.