CR on the Southern Secondary

@Jersey Rail Filmmakers I can go check today since I have to be in Lakehurst anyways. It’s only about 10 minutes to Woodhaven from there.

Will be very very strange if it’s still there. Conrail North Jersey has been cutting back on crews at an alarming rate and now they barely have anyone available to take this train back. The problem is compounded by the fact that each individual section of track that Conrail runs on requires certification of a crew. It’s in the 2013 timetable. Crews need certification on 3-4 sections of track just to go from Sayerville to Lakewood. Same for Sayerville to Freehold or Hightstown or Dayton.

As it’s stands only PR-19, SA31, and a few other crews who used to do SA38 and SA91/SA93 have the qualifications to come down here, and all of them besides SA31 are assigned to other areas.

Bracdude181 wrote:@Jersey Rail Filmmakers I can go check today since I have to be in Lakehurst anyways. It’s only about 10 minutes to Woodhaven from there.

Will be very very strange if it’s still there. Conrail North Jersey has been cutting back on crews at an alarming rate and now they barely have anyone available to take this train back. The problem is compounded by the fact that each individual section of track that Conrail runs on requires certification of a crew. It’s in the 2013 timetable. Crews need certification on 3-4 sections of track just to go from Sayerville to Lakewood. Same for Sayerville to Freehold or Hightstown or Dayton.

As it’s stands only PR-19, SA31, and a few other crews who used to do SA38 and SA91/SA93 have the qualifications to come down here, and all of them besides SA31 are assigned to other areas.

Yeah I’m not sure. If it ran yesterday I would have heard it. I was at my house the whole entire morning and I worked early afternoon, which is right by Patterson Ave and I didn’t hear anything. 4432 also has a loud horn so I’d be quite surprised if it snuck past me. Although, if the train is still there, they could bring it back Sunday, because there have been multiple Sunday runs in the past… or maybe even today…

Bracdude181 wrote: ↑Sat Jul 03, 2021 8:11 am
Will be very very strange if it’s still there. Conrail North Jersey has been cutting back on crews at an alarming rate and now they barely have anyone available to take this train back.

Oh wow, didn’t know that. Are engineers/crew working for conrail leaving? Or is Conrail laying people off?

Unless they are sending crews to different parts of the railroad, and not leaving enough for the Browns yard area?

Idk, not sure on how the crew stuff/situation works…

From what I’ve heard North Jersey has been cutting down, but I know there’s some who left of their own accord for various reasons. Some North Jersey crews have been transferred to South Jersey as well. (My friend recognized an engineer on BU-20 who used to come down here alot)

Browns used to have more crews/trains, (SA42, SA33, SA35, and SA02 to name a few) but as time has gone on North Jersey cut the amount of trains/crews in Browns. It’s the yard they want to get rid of the most, so it suffers the most.

Bracdude181 wrote: It’s the yard they want to get rid of the most, so it suffers the most.

Is the reason known?

In relation to Tanker's post about the appearance of rail alongside Southard Ave: there are also a few new ties alongside the Southern ROW across from where the FIT disappears into the weeds.
As far as the new rail goes, pretty sure they mean new to the FIT, not factory new, as it appears they will rip out and replace 27500 ft, and reuse the 27500 ft ripped out elsewhere in phase 2. Makes sense, we're not talking NECorridor standards here.

CharlieL wrote: ↑Sat Jul 03, 2021 10:06 am In relation to Tanker's post about the appearance of rail alongside Southard Ave: there are also a few new ties alongside the Southern ROW across from where the FIT disappears into the weeds.
As far as the new rail goes, pretty sure they mean new to the FIT, not factory new, as it appears they will rip out and replace 27500 ft, and reuse the 27500 ft ripped out elsewhere in phase 2. Makes sense, we're not talking NECorridor standards here.

I've stop back to look at the rail and I'm now 50/50 on if it was removed or dropped off? There is some bushes weeds pushed over? But I wouldn't want to be working in that jungle removing track. I would like to believe that they will cut weeds growth before pulling track. But sometimes low bit wins.

@Jersey Rail Filmmakers Conrail North Jerseys upper management feels that smaller yards like Browns, Manville, and Metuchen are burdens and do not make enough money, when truthfully they do. North Jersey doesn’t realize that income goes away when you scare away customers with poor service.

With regards to the comments on the appearance of ties and rail along the Southern and Freehold:

Between Railroad Ave in Farmingdale and Freeway Warehouse there was a whole bunch of heavy gauge rail welded together that was meant to be put in around 1980 or something but the rail was left there and never installed. Tankers picture doesn’t look like the rail in question...

As for ties, didn’t C&D say they were going to install steel ties? Are the ties showing up made of wood or steel? Never seen steel ties installed anywhere on the C&D system from areas where track can be seen from public property or by satellite...

12,250 steel ties; 6,500 wood ties of which 1500 are marked for "crossing approaches". The other 5,000 wood? Who knows but almost certainly some on bridges. At a tie spacing of 20 inches, 5000 wood ties is enough for almost 2 miles of track.

So I’m assuming all of this is not the greatest news for the southern secondary? I don’t 100% understand everything going on, since last time I was really reading this thread was August of 2019…

@Jersey Rail Filmmakers The Southern Secondary and Freehold Industrial Track are going to be connected by reopening the easternmost 5 miles between Farmingdale and Freehold. The work is being done with grant money awarded to Chesapeake and Delaware, who will most likely assume all operations of both lines following completion of the work.

J R F, read the grants thread and the speculation thread. Not bad news for the Southern. It seems as if the Freehold and the Southern are to be reconnected, with (speculation) the freight duties to be taken over from CRSA by the Dover and Delaware, removing the need for shipments to go over the NJCL and allowing plate "F" loading gauge. If what Bracdude is speculating happens, operations out of Browns will be handled by D&D, with a potential for more customers. All we really know is D&D got a grant from the state for about 4.2 mil to reconnect the two and perform some upgrades and bridge repair. They are putting several hundred thousand of their own money into it and have taken over some CRSA operations out of Phillipsburg already.

Train returned last night, eastbound from Bank at 9:00 in the pm.

Steel ties have twice the life of conventional wood ties (30-35 years vs. 60-65 years for steel) and there are some on the Belvidere & Delaware River Railway (a C&D line) south of Phillipsburg that were installed a few years ago. I know because I was on one of the track gangs that installed them; there are a few on the yard lead at Port Delaware shops as well. No spiking needed with steel ties, the Pandrol clips hammer right in and there is no movement (loosening/raising) of a spike as a train rolls over a potential low spot. Tamping is a bit different as steel ties are 'hollow' and ballast needs to be pushed up into the underside of the tie, but it's not actually a big deal. I love them because swinging a spike maul at my age is not fun anymore. Also, steel ties are eco-friendly...no nasty creosote to deal with and a much easier recycling process for used ties.

Chris

@CharlieL The Washington Secondary between Phillipsburg and Hacketstown was only run by Conrail until 1999 when NS took over. C&D took over in April 2019.

I don’t know if they will take over Browns, and personally I hope they don’t.

Why?

Well for starters, Chesapeake and Delaware has some of the highest prices for tariffs and services of any NJ railroad. $250-$500 per car for intra-plant switching, a $1000 charge for handling any car over Plate F and over 263,000 pounds.

If you need a door on a railcar closed, it’s a charge of $250.

Yes. $250 to close a railcar door.

Got any dirty railcars? That’s another $250 charge to whoever is responsible for the dirt. (?!)

How about the “Industry Delay” Charge? Small accident occurs or you need the train to stick around just a little bit longer?

$1000 for the first hour and $250 for every hour afterwards.

I could go on, but I think I’ve made the point.

So what about Conrail prices?

Well that’s a bit tricky because Conrail says NS and CSX provide the pricing info but I’ve heard otherwise. So let’s assume someone is dealing with CSX.

$200 for intra-plant switching regardless of what’s inside the car, vs $500 for hazardous materials under C&D

Around $165 (I think) a day for demurrage.

No tariffs on dirty cars or an “Industry Delay”

$100 or so to close a door on a railcar. (Still a bit much though.)

I won’t bother mentioning NS because their prices are higher than both C&D and CSX. Plus, most of the carload traffic into/out of Oak Island is handled by CSX anyways. Only H76 and 18/19G bring misc loads into Oak Island now whereas half of the CSX trains going in there drop cars off now.

So yeah, can’t say I expect them to pick up any customers if the prices they have are gonna be higher than what CSX/Conrail do.

Sure, the service will be better than Conrail. But honestly, who on the Southern Secondary and Freehold Industrial regularly get cars more than once a week? Builders General, Prestone, and Reed Perine. Woodhaven may need more service, but they might not want to pay the aforementioned prices. (plus additional transfer fees between railroads which can add as much as $400-$750 a car to the total shipping price in some cases!) Woodhaven pays enough as it is seeing as how some of their cars come from Western Canada and Montana.

Part 2 to this post coming shortly.