Amtrak Expansion Plan

gokeefe wrote: ↑Wed Apr 22, 2020 6:16 pm

Tadman wrote: ↑Wed Apr 22, 2020 2:02 pm Right, but there's something like 3x/day between the two branches. Why pay two sets of trackage rights, two terminals, two cleaning crews, etc? Compare it to the Empire Corridor - wouldn't it be nuts to have 3x/day go up the west shore to Schenectady?

If things were going to remain that way I might agree. If this were 1968 and the mail has just come off the trains I would likewise agree with consolidation. But thankfully it's not.

Virginia intends to grow both of these lines and I would not be surprised to see them get up to 10x+ per day on each line. I'm sure a new station for NPN is in the making as well. They're laying the ground work for a lot of growth and trying to stay ahead of the curve.

That makes the case even stronger for consolidating to one line. Consider the folly of two lines: Same origination at Staples Mill. One line skips downtown Richmond! One intermediate station each. Now we're running 10x/each just to have different lines so Petersburg Nowhere can have service? And skip downtown Richmond with 10x trains? And pay two trackage rights? And maintain two terminals in the same metro area? And now have enough people to clean 10x trains at each terminal????????? I cannot think of a worse use of money other than the legendary RR.net Buff Express with 27 cars, full dining, and running from Pocatello to Punksatawney via Philadelphia.

This is the craziest thing I've ever heard to have two lines between #37 and #44 metro areas, which are similar to Nashville, Milwaukee, Memphis, Nashville...

Consider if you would fund this new version of the Hiawatha:

It starts at McCormick Place on South Side. One branch follows UP to Sturtevant and downtown Milwaukee but skips Chicago Union Station. One branch follows CP to Racine and Milwaukee airport but doesn't go to downtown MKE. 10x/day each. This might be the craziest thing I've ever heard of.

Also, there is 7x on the Hiawatha which is a very good number. 10x on both lines with both cities the size of MKE? Crazy.

It's little wonder why we discuss NCDOT and people are just so surprised that North Carolina republicans "hate trains". The optics are not unflattering, they're absolutely mind-bendingly bad. Boss Hogg looks better out there shaking babies and kissing hands than this.

Are we just trying to make a cost cutting target? Two lines to the same place but different inconvenient stations?

Tadman wrote: ↑Thu Apr 23, 2020 12:15 pm That makes the case even stronger for consolidating to one line. Consider the folly of two lines: Same origination at Staples Mill. One line skips downtown Richmond! One intermediate station each. Now we're running 10x/each just to have different lines so Petersburg Nowhere can have service? And skip downtown Richmond with 10x trains? And pay two trackage rights? And maintain two terminals in the same metro area? And now have enough people to clean 10x trains at each terminal????????? I cannot think of a worse use of money other than the legendary RR.net Buff Express with 27 cars, full dining, and running from Pocatello to Punksatawney via Philadelphia.

This is the craziest thing I've ever heard to have two lines between #37 and #44 metro areas, which are similar to Nashville, Milwaukee, Memphis, Nashville...

The cities in the Port of Virginia/Hampton Roads area suffer from a geographic challenge faced by other cities like SF/Oakland and NYC/Northern New Jersey: a very large natural harbor. And unlike the other cities which have heavy rail cross-harbor links (and full passenger rail in NYC's case), Hampton Roads has only two underwater vehicular tunnels and very heavy rush hour traffic. The only way to consolidate the terminals is to build a rail bridge (across the Navy's largest port!) or tunnel OR bus folks from one side to the other.

Service to NPN had continued for a long time and there was no desire to discontinue it. Likewise additional service to NFK has been well received and even expanded from one to two weekday round trips. Virginia knows it needs to reduce traffic on I-64 and that folks aren't going to take the bus through rush hour traffic so it will subsidize and expand rail options in the Hampton Roads area.

As part of the SEHSR project and recent acquisition of the CSX S-Line, all future Richmond and Norfolk regionals will serve downtown RIchmond.

I think that other geographical accident SF/OAK should see more service to SF including its own version of the Starlight running down to LA.

My take on all this meshugaas:
1: Expand on the existing NEC.
-Improvements to the Keystone for speed.
-New Haven-Springfield: string it up, at least to SPG, track improvements for speed and frequency, CT/MA funds more CTRail service, Amtrak drops most of the local stops, more through trains.
-Direct service to the terminals of PHL (I'll have to link a map of how this can be done, but you basically branch off the NEC at Chester, run over the existing ROW into the airport, then continue north to re-merge just before 30th St station).
-Electrify to Richmond.
2: VA/NC. VA is doing wonders and getting the S line operational will cut travel times between the NEC and Raleigh (and points south and west).
-There 100% needs to be an overnight counterpart to the Carolinian. Overnight Carolinian happens to be timed right to cover the duties of the existing first NC set that currently departs Raleigh early am and does the 2 round trips (cut the sleepers in Charlotte to be serviced during the day and then picked back up on the last outbound), freeing up that NC set to either provide additional service on the Piedmont.
-Expanded service between Raleigh and Charlotte with an extension to CLT and possibly some additional service out of Raleigh to Winston-Salem. -String up the Piedmont if it gets to be enough service, likewise for the S line (though I can't see more than 5x between WAS and Raleigh (depart WAS 6am (new), 10:30am (adjusted Carolinian), 4pm (adjusted Star), 6pm (new), 12:30am (Carolinian mirror) so not sure electrification is justifiable, track improvements for speed.
-Adjust Crescent schedule and double it. Push the existing SB train back 3 hours, add another one 4ish hours earlier than the existing train. Timed connections with the Piedmont at Greensboro.
3: Cleveland seems to be an end point for multiple potential corridors operating at various frequencies, so developing a new facility/base there would be warranted. 3C, Pittsburgh (via Akron & Youngstown), Chicago (Preferably via Fort Wayne), Buffalo (how much demand is there for travel between these two and the lakefront communities between them honestly? Perhaps if it ran to Toronto?), and I'll add Detroit. Hopkins Airport falls on 2 of those so a station there definitely has merit and you may even see a very slight boost in flights serving the airport as a result of its improved distribution capabilities.
4: Florida, what a mess.
-Brightline is going to do its thing, serving MCO, Disney, Lakeland, and Tampa. Hopefully both serve Tampa's Union Station. I'd like to see Brightline run another service up their tracks to Jacksonville (have they expressed any strong indication of doing so?). If they do, Amtrak and Brightline should definitely have a shared station in Jacksonville and if a thru-ticketing agreement could be reached that would only serve to help both companies. Punctuality on the Amtrak side is a concern but assuming Brightline will be running at decent headways missed connections SB aren't the end of the world. Then re-direct all Silver Service into Florida to terminate at Tampa. Not sure what to do about Okeechobee, Sebring, or Winter Haven though.
-New state funded corridors Tampa-Jacksonville via Ocala/Gainesville and Tampa-Naples (and maybe extend to Miami?) and contracted out to either Brightline or Amtrak. Again, ideally both companies serve Union Station in Tampa, which could possibly allow for a new state operated servicing facility at Tampa paid for both by Amtrak and Brightline unless the 2 can come to a joint operating agreement.
-Something commuter running Sanford-Orlando-Tampa, be it an expansion of Sunrail or whatever, as well as an Ocala-The Villages-Orlando-MCO service but that's more of a local issue.
-Atlanta-Jacksonville and Atlanta--Gainesville-Orlando-MCO via Warner Robins and Valdosta.
5: Cali:
-Finish CAHSR between LA and San Fran.
-2nd Coast Starlight operating overnight between LA and The Bay (SF or Oakland, debate it, my vote is San Fran with a timed Capitol Corridor connection).
-LOSSAN frequency increase and string it up.
-LA to Phoenix, get trip time way down (that is very straight track), run 5x daily. Add stops at Ontario Airport, re-route into Phoenix, and stop at Phoenix Sky Harbor and Tempe, terminate in Mesa
-LA to Vegas multiple frequencies with 1 being a re-instated Desert Wind to Denver via SLC, Ogden & Cheyenne. Overnight portion is between LV and SLC. Daylight LV-LA and SLC-Denver.
6: Break CZ in 2 at Denver. Add 2nd frequency CHI-DEN, add an overnight DEN-SLC via Cheyenne and Ogden, maybe a (or is there not a lot of movement between these cities?)
7: TEXAS G-D D@MN MOTHER#U(KING TRIANGLE. Dallas - Houston (let TX Central be the high speed express, Amtrak is the local via College Station, Waco, and other intermediate points), San Antonio-Dallas, and San Antonio-Houston via Austin. Vonlane is growing and between them and Southwest it's overly obvious that the demand is there. I'd also extend Houston into Galveston and try to bring Texas Central into the same station that the Amtrak service would end up using (would be great if they could get the old location back at the postal facility (or is it IRS? I forget), it is perfect). Track speeds up as much as possible, electrified, frequent service.
8. Wisconsin:
-Mas Hiawatha. String it up, speed it up. Extension of some schedules to Madison.
-There should absolutely be a local service operating via Evanston, Waukeegan, Kenosha, and Racine
-Is there any merit to extending any Hiawathas to Green Bay via Fon De Lac, Oshkosh, and Appleton or is it just not populous enough? Is going up there a thing on summer weekends?
-Chicago-Madison via Rockford & Janesville
-Boosted service Chicago-Minneapolis, at least 3x (2 day, 1 overnight). How much value is there in getting Madison hooked up with Minneapolis?
9. -Bring back Chicago-Indianapolis service but make the necessary improvements to make that train actually useful and competitive. Extend to Louisville, Cincinnati, and Dayton/Columbus, even if it means sending most frequencies all as one train from Chicago and splitting up in Indy. Also, have at least 1 frequency to Pittsburgh via Indy and Columbus.
10. NY HSR: Just #U(KING DO IT ALREADY!
-What were studies showing travel time would be along the line?
-With GO extending to Niagara Falls, would it be at all possible to operate to Toronto with just 2 Canadian stops (Niagara Falls and Toronto) and immigration formalities done at the station rather than on the train at the border? If so, run all service to Toronto. Better to anchor it down with 2 major cities and have a string of smaller ones between them. If not, how tied in is Central NY with Cleveland and the lakefront communities? More-so than with Toronto?
-Bring Amtrak back into downtown Syracuse. Between I-481 and I-81, I-690 doesn't serve any real purpose. West of downtown it's easy enough to thread through along I-690.
-Overnight Adirondack. Any way to speed up the day train other than the upcoming immigration process change? Damn shame the ROW via Burlington VT is developed in a key spot just north of the city, it's a MUCH straighter route, easier to upgrade for high speed.
11. Re-route CONO via St Louis, add 2 more trains between Chicago and St Louis. Re-route to serve Midway Airport directly
12. Most importantly in my opinion, more than anything, LOOK INTO NEW REVENUE STREAMS!
-Start developing land around the stations and lease it out (don't just sell it and be done with it). Syracuse would be a perfect opportunity for this if they could get service back into downtown.
-What about hotels/hostels at the stations? Some of these stations, although most not owned by Amtrak anymore, are beautiful structures and perhaps could host lodging. Their trains drives traffic to their hotels and their hotels drive traffic to their trains. Backpacking is growing in the US, cash in on that!

NIMBYkiller wrote: ↑Fri Apr 24, 2020 3:11 am My take on all this meshugaas:

4: Florida, what a mess.

Yeah, and you didn't even mention the Miami Airport station fiasco.

Let's sensibly consolidate all rail service in Miami (excluding Brightline) at the new intermodal facility at the airport!

Amtrak says no. The station was built too short for it's trains. Not their fault.

Builders say Amtrak never mentioned that when they saw the plans. Not their fault.

So spend big bucks to build new streets and electronic signs so traffic can be rerouted further north so Amtrak trains will fit in the station.

Amtrak says?

Crickets.

Amtrak?

Hello?

Yeah, Florida is a real mess and probably getting worse. There will be two separate Jacksonville stations. Three separate Miami stations. Two separate Orlando stations. Two separate Tampa stations.

Someone has to coordinate this mess.

Tadman wrote: ↑Thu Apr 23, 2020 12:15 pmThat makes the case even stronger for consolidating to one line. Consider the folly of two lines: Same origination at Staples Mill. One line skips downtown Richmond! One intermediate station each. Now we're running 10x/each just to have different lines so Petersburg Nowhere can have service? And skip downtown Richmond with 10x trains? And pay two trackage rights? And maintain two terminals in the same metro area? And now have enough people to clean 10x trains at each terminal????????? I cannot think of a worse use of money other than the legendary RR.net Buff Express with 27 cars, full dining, and running from Pocatello to Punksatawney via Philadelphia.

This is the craziest thing I've ever heard to have two lines between #37 and #44 metro areas, which are similar to Nashville, Milwaukee, Memphis, Nashville...

Consider if you would fund this new version of the Hiawatha:

It starts at McCormick Place on South Side. One branch follows UP to Sturtevant and downtown Milwaukee but skips Chicago Union Station. One branch follows CP to Racine and Milwaukee airport but doesn't go to downtown MKE. 10x/day each. This might be the craziest thing I've ever heard of.

Also, there is 7x on the Hiawatha which is a very good number. 10x on both lines with both cities the size of MKE? Crazy.

It's little wonder why we discuss NCDOT and people are just so surprised that North Carolina republicans "hate trains". The optics are not unflattering, they're absolutely mind-bendingly bad. Boss Hogg looks better out there shaking babies and kissing hands than this.

Are we just trying to make a cost cutting target? Two lines to the same place but different inconvenient stations?

To summarize what Wharton said, your plan is penny-wise and pound-foolish and yes, the plan is to send the Norfolk trains through RVM. Also, I haven’t heard any of the Virginia Republicans complaining specifically about the split service (some do complain about Amtrak generally, but that isn’t universal by any means.)

bostontrainguy wrote: ↑Fri Apr 24, 2020 9:23 am Yeah, and you didn't even mention the Miami Airport station fiasco.

Let's sensibly consolidate all rail service in Miami (excluding Brightline) at the new intermodal facility at the airport!

Amtrak says no. The station was built too short for it's trains. Not their fault.

Builders say Amtrak never mentioned that when they saw the plans. Not their fault.

So spend big bucks to build new streets and electronic signs so traffic can be rerouted further north so Amtrak trains will fit in the station.

...

Someone has to coordinate this mess.

This is a stunningly bad unforced error. In construction, there are so many basic processes to prevent these errors.

1. Before construction, potential tenants are asked to sign a letter of intent or contract that they will actually use the facility
2. There are usually requirements like "we run X trains/day, 11 cars long, need 480v ground power, elevators, a/c"
3. Then there are approval drawings. The architect determines the average Silver is 11 cars and 2 power, x80 feet, send it to Amtrak for approval
4. Now there's a paper trail and a legally binding agreement.

This is why I'm so anti-government development and pro-PPP. Stupid mistakes happen, nobody pays the price, and more stupid mistakes happen. In the end, not only do you waste taxpayer money, but you still don't have useful infrastructure. In the private sector, if this happens, the price is paid.

Remember Southern Pacific? They came into 1970 with a very healthy business. They came into 1990 in rough shape. Why? Because the brass decided to upgrade their core Overland route, the signature traffic generator for 100 years. The competitive analysis was poor, and nobody wanted to pay attention to the growing chemical traffic monster between NOLA and Houston. UP and MP picked up oodles of business, SP got little, but was stuck paying the debt on an underperforming Overland. SP paid dearly for making the wrong bet, and eventually was folded into UP.

Bad investments should have consequences. Otherwise you get a billion dollar doorstop. Whoever was involved in the Miami Airport Station debacle should be shoving carts in the parking lot at Kroger for such a stupid mistake.

Messrs. Dunville and Train Guy, as noted at other topics more related to the Miami situation, I have questioned whether Amtrak was REALLY considering a move to the Intermodal Center from the existing "SAL Coachyard" facility. Sure, the Marketing people wanted it as there was still a shred of effort to market the LD's back then. The Mechanical, Operations, and the FEC Ry, wanted no part of it. The latter noted Departments had "better meeting skills", and that was that.

mtuandrew wrote: ↑Fri Apr 24, 2020 9:46 am

Tadman wrote: ↑Thu Apr 23, 2020 12:15 pmThat makes the case even stronger for consolidating to one line. Consider the folly of two lines:

To summarize what Wharton said, your plan is penny-wise and pound-foolish and yes, the plan is to send the Norfolk trains through RVM. Also, I haven’t heard any of the Virginia Republicans complaining specifically about the split service (some do complain about Amtrak generally, but that isn’t universal by any means.)

That's your opinion, not fact. And my opinion, based on some real basic facts, is that two routes between two small metro areas at 10x/each is not just foolish, its crazy. There is no precedent for it in anywhere in North America. Amtrak would not even consider using Hoboken despite having a the worst capacity constraint in the country in the failing tunnels coupled with at-capacity NYP. LIRR has moved away from using Flatbush avenue by using dual modes into NYP. It might be different if these trains ran anywhere but between the exact same endpoints.

And 10x/each, I mean cmon, that's more than many commuter routes.

NIMBYkiller wrote: ↑Fri Apr 24, 2020 3:11 am If they do, Amtrak and Brightline should definitely have a shared station in Jacksonville and if a thru-ticketing agreement could be reached that would only serve to help both companies. Punctuality on the Amtrak side is a concern but assuming Brightline will be running at decent headways missed connections SB aren't the end of the world.

-With GO extending to Niagara Falls, would it be at all possible to operate to Toronto with just 2 Canadian stops (Niagara Falls and Toronto) and immigration formalities done at the station rather than on the train at the border? If so, run all service to Toronto. Better to anchor it down with 2 major cities and have a string of smaller ones between them. If not, how tied in is Central NY with Cleveland and the lakefront communities? More-so than with Toronto?

-Overnight Adirondack. Any way to speed up the day train other than the upcoming immigration process change? Damn shame the ROW via Burlington VT is developed in a key spot just north of the city, it's a MUCH straighter route, easier to upgrade for high speed.

1. I think Amtrak is planning on moving to the Brightline Jacksonville station (Union Station) once it is built.

2. I also heard that GO Transit could be expanding to Buffalo, so that would allow for increased frequency between Buffalo and Niagara Falls, and the possible use of Buffalo Central Terminal. proposed

3. There is currently a proposed privately operated overnight Montreal-Albany sleeper service which is waiting on the ok from CP Rail for trackage rights.

But otherwise I agree on all points made.

I wrote a letter to Amtrak a few months ago asking them to fix a few problems which they have been experiencing, such as saving the Ocean View dome car, restoring the Toys 4 Tots Train, Adding more tracks for passenger service, etc. At the end of this letter is a list of proposed long distance and regional routes which I asked to be restored. The letter was rejected in its entirety, but I will share the (somewhat long) list which I sent in the letter. Some routes might obviously be more profitable than others.

Tadman wrote: ↑Fri Apr 24, 2020 10:20 amThere is no precedent for it in anywhere in North America.

I thought about this for a while ... If you consider some of the longer distance commuter routes I think this is likely untrue. A couple come to mind in particular the commuter lines running north out of Boston. Another example are the parallel Metra routes running to Wisconsin.

Some of NJT might have similar forked routes. Metro North does on the Canaan Branch. Many of these areas have base populations that are significantly smaller than Newport News or Norfolk and they likewise feed a large metro area.

For intercity Amtrak specific examples I would also note the Piedmont v. Atlantic Coast Service which has a forked route that eventually rejoins. The frequencies aren't 10x but like VA they are continuing to grow.

bostontrainguy wrote: ↑Fri Apr 24, 2020 9:23 am

NIMBYkiller wrote: ↑Fri Apr 24, 2020 3:11 am My take on all this meshugaas:

4: Florida, what a mess.

Yeah, and you didn't even mention the Miami Airport station fiasco.

Let's sensibly consolidate all rail service in Miami (excluding Brightline) at the new intermodal facility at the airport!

Amtrak says no. The station was built too short for it's trains. Not their fault.

Builders say Amtrak never mentioned that when they saw the plans. Not their fault.

So spend big bucks to build new streets and electronic signs so traffic can be rerouted further north so Amtrak trains will fit in the station.

Amtrak says?

Crickets.

Amtrak?

Hello?

Yeah, Florida is a real mess and probably getting worse. There will be two separate Jacksonville stations. Three separate Miami stations. Two separate Orlando stations. Two separate Tampa stations.

Someone has to coordinate this mess.

MIC as it exists should never have even happened, period. The far more unified way of building the entire station at the current terminal side of the people mover was (and fortunately still is) entirely doable. Put the entire intermodal operation right next to the terminals so that local bus, intercity bus, Tri-Rail, and if Amtrak continues to operate to Miami, Amtrak (especially since we can assume Brightline would never allow Amtrak into Miami Central, nor should they be forced to), flights, and car rentals are all within walking distance of each other rather than the terminals be a shuttle transfer away from it all. It makes the case all the more for Amtrak to work with airlines on thru-ticketing, another source of revenue they should absolutely be pursuing (along with more thruway connections). The fairly compact U-shaped layout makes this possible, compared to a place like JFK where the terminals are all spread out across a sprawling complex. Best of all it gives you the space for longer platforms to solve the Amtrak problem and for expanded Tri-Rail consists should the need ever come up. The existing grounds of MIC and the rental car facility could be used as layup tracks, a new service facility for Tri-Rail, Metrorail, and/or Amtrak if needed, bus yards, or even as a medium density (depending on FAA restrictions) mixed use real estate development. Hell, you could still have MIA Tri-Rail or even Amtrak (if Brightline allows) trains operate into MIA and then change ends and terminate at Miami Central if you built a bridge over the canal and used the ROW between NW 22nd and NW 23rd, then over I-95 and the Dolphin Expressway or something creative along the SE corner of Wynwood.

The idea is make improve intermodal connectivity as best as possible. This concept alone will represent an expansion for Amtrak as the greater unity of modes will make public transportation as a whole easier to use and should result in more riders (unless you go with my prior idea to re-direct all Silver Service to terminate at Tampa and let Brightline handle Miami-Dade service via transfer at Jacksonville, in which case MIC is completely moot for this Amtrak expansion conversation).

Tadman wrote: ↑Fri Apr 24, 2020 10:20 am
That's your opinion, not fact. And my opinion, based on some real basic facts, is that two routes between two small metro areas at 10x/each is not just foolish, its crazy. There is no precedent for it in anywhere in North America. Amtrak would not even consider using Hoboken despite having a the worst capacity constraint in the country in the failing tunnels coupled with at-capacity NYP. LIRR has moved away from using Flatbush avenue by using dual modes into NYP. It might be different if these trains ran anywhere but between the exact same endpoints.

And 10x/each, I mean cmon, that's more than many commuter routes.

Are the trains empty? Virginia has a unique quality of parsimony and success when it comes to passenger rail service and both routes are performing quite well as amtrak service goes anywhere. I'd say that Virginia's continued interest in supporting these services speaks highly to it's utility.

I think an apt comparison would be how trains run both San Francisco-San Jose and Oakland San Jose. Same metro areas, sure, but there's an obvious geographic barrier involved and both trains serve different functions.

With respect to Hoboken, New York Penn Station and the tracks that serve it both belong entirely to Amtrak and Midtown Manhattan is a staggeringly more important destination than Hoboken. Anyone wanting to go to Hoboken can make a relatively frequent transfer at Newark. This is not the case for Newport News.

Trains may be empty systemwide right now due to the COVID-19 outbreak. However, when things return to normal, States like Virginia will start seeing some more rail improvements in the short term as well as the long term. I know that Amtrak is supposed to start running a third train to Norfolk, VA in one of the next few years. One question is will it run daily or only Mondays through Fridays. I know right now, there are two trains that serve Norfolk that only run during the week while one of those trains runs on weekends. Hopefully there will be three trains in each direction serving Norfolk daily. I know that eventually, Virginia will let Amtrak run three trains in each direction to and from Newport News. Within the next ten years, it looks like we will be seeing close to an hourly schedule for Amtrak Regional trains serving Richmond and many of them will serve Downtown Richmond in addition to Staples Mill Road Station.

NIMBYkiller wrote: ↑Fri Apr 24, 2020 3:11 am My take on all this meshugaas:
10. NY HSR: Just #U(KING DO IT ALREADY!
-What were studies showing travel time would be along the line?

Here's the full Draft Environment Impact Statement for Empire Corridor HSR. The FRA web site mentions a Final EIS coming in 2019....

Pick your poison:


Short run-down:
Base alternative = Essentially current (from a decade ago) conditions (max speed 79 MPH) plus small projects that have already been done since then/are easily doable, such as improvements to the Albany, Rochester and Niagara stations, and small signal and interlocking improvements here and there.
90A = Max speed 90 MPH, with additional improvements, like a few segments of additional track along the entire line (including south of Albany)
90B = Similar to 90A, but would add a 3rd track to the entire ROW between Schenectady and Buffalo and a 4th track in some areas.
110 = Similar to 90B, but with additional signal, grade crossing, etc. improvements to support 110 MPH running
125 = Would build a new, electrified ROW between Albany and Buffalo (while using the existing ROW between Niagara and Buffalo and between Albany and NYC, and using dual-mode locomotives.) The new ROW would stop at the existing stations in Syracuse and Rochester. However, 'local' service between Albany and Buffalo and the existing ROW would remain largely the same.

They did also look at 125 MPH running on the existing ROW between Albany and Buffalo, but threw it away for being too impractical. They also looked at 160 MPH and 220 MPH running on a new ROW (which would also use a brand-new ROW between Albany and NYC, presumably along I-87) which they also threw away for being too impractical. Funny enough, '90B' is basically what Virginia is doing between Washington D.C. and Richmond, isn't it?