Corona virus impacts on Amtrak

David Benton wrote: ↑Wed Apr 01, 2020 7:19 pm In the worldwide "Corona" thread , we discuss the use of the TGV as ambulance trains in France.
http://www.railroad.net/viewtopic.php?f=149&t=171152
Anyone see a similar use for Amtrak's Viewliner / Superliner trains? Getting some patients out of central New York ???

Edit : not Superliners out of New York , Obviously!. Perhaps another center .

Similar, but it would require a charter train (maybe military) and the destination cannot be along the east coast. It's highly dependent on what hospitals have capacity and capability inside the interior of the US.

That said... do we still have military hospital trains? I remember some New York Central propaganda posters about hospital trains on the same route as the 20th Century Limited.

wigwagfan wrote: ↑Thu Apr 02, 2020 1:32 am

mtuandrew wrote: ↑Wed Apr 01, 2020 9:49 pm I’d asked a similar question up-thread re: hospital cars. Honestly, buses (city or coach) would be better options so not to contaminate whatever stations would be used by a train.

I would hope that should the need arise for a mass evacuation hospital train, that a more suitable "station" be used. Assuming that patients would be loaded directly from train to ambulance or vice-versa, all you really need is a big paved area, so any intermodal ramp, harbor/dock track, a freight reload facility, would do...there's no reason to use an existing station.

The storage area at 30th Street would be a good location if anyone was brought to Philadelphia.

The US may be successful in extending out the pandemic over 18 months as the experts want. If that happens I cannot see how Amtrak will survive ? The airlines certainly cannot. They will all be in bankruptcy by July 31 at the latest. No matter how the pandemic goes it will not be contained before fall.

east point wrote: ↑Fri Apr 03, 2020 9:25 am The US may be successful in extending out the pandemic over 18 months as the experts want. If that happens I cannot see how Amtrak will survive ? The airlines certainly cannot. They will all be in bankruptcy by July 31 at the latest. No matter how the pandemic goes it will not be contained before fall.

There is going to be some level of distancing for months if not years. Amtrak and the airlines will have to adapt and right size to meet the new normal. Business travel is never coming back at the same levels.

STrRedWolf wrote: ↑Fri Apr 03, 2020 7:14 amThat said... do we still have military hospital trains?

No. DoD hasn't had that type of equipment since sometime between the Korea and Vietnam conflicts.

I think it's a reasonable question to ask on some levels whether or not Amtrak has a role to play in arranging evacuation of patients. A train can certainly get more people out of an area than one bus or helicopter at a time. That being said the risk of infection and other issues associated with trying to isolate these patients seem to me insurmountable within the timelines needed in order to respond.

gokeefe wrote: ↑Fri Apr 03, 2020 5:33 pm

STrRedWolf wrote: ↑Fri Apr 03, 2020 7:14 amThat said... do we still have military hospital trains?

No. DoD hasn't had that type of equipment since sometime between the Korea and Vietnam conflicts.

I think it's a reasonable question to ask on some levels whether or not Amtrak has a role to play in arranging evacuation of patients. A train can certainly get more people out of an area than one bus or helicopter at a time. That being said the risk of infection and other issues associated with trying to isolate these patients seem to me insurmountable within the timelines needed in order to respond.

If Amtrak has a role it might be to provide some odd forms of support:

1) transport of critical supplies like some airlines are doing.
2) offering sleeper and diner cars for medical personnel needing somewhere to stay.
3) resumption of mail service if the airlines go down.

I’m taking Amtrak shortly for an overnight long-distance trip, instead of flying. I figure that flying is safe, but the trip to the airport, and being around people at the airport, is not. I can walk to the train station, avoid people, board the train by myself and then be in an enclosed room, and that all sounds safer.

Why isn’t Amtrak advertising its sleeping cars more these days? Being in an enclosed room is surely a good thing. This time, when I told co-workers that I am taking a Amtrak, to be in a private room, they thought that it’s a good idea. Last time I took Amtrak, before the pandemic, they thought that I was crazy.

I'm not a big fan of long road trips by myself, but I sure would consider it right now. I guess you still gamble about the cleanliness of gas stations and hotels.

I would figure that Amtrak would be irresponsible if they did not get some public health experts to positively confirm that sleeper car travel is socially distant. How does the ventilation system work, for one?

rcthompson04 wrote: ↑Fri Apr 03, 2020 7:35 pmIf Amtrak has a role it might be to provide some odd forms of support:

1) transport of critical supplies like some airlines are doing.
2) offering sleeper and diner cars for medical personnel needing somewhere to stay.
3) resumption of mail service if the airlines go down.

All of the above three seem like long shots to me. Critical supply transport is not difficult right now due to an excess of available transportation resources both air and ground. Sleeper and diner car utilization seems unlikely given vacancy rates at hotels right now which are near empty everywhere. Mail service also seems unlikely given the excess air cargo capacity.

Using trains to evacuate COVID positive patients to areas with better availability of hospital beds, staff, supplies and equipment really does seem like a legitimate possibility. This would probably be on an intra-state basis only but in some areas it would be critical.

While it may be possible to move staff, equipment and supplies to new locations it seems significantly less burdensome to me to move the patients to the hospitals than to bring the hospitals to the patients.

This could potentially work even for a state as small as Maine. The cases are heavily concentrated in southern Maine and using a "hospital train" to move them northwards for geographic dispersion of demand could work better than most other available options. It would also reduce impact on ambulance and EMS services which would be heavily exposed as a result of requirements to transport COVID patients in small spaces.

I'm not convinced that the future is quite so dire as others here are saying. The problem is that people are focused on death statistics vs. probabilities. Once the math settles out and we have a better idea of how many people were asymptomatic vs, visibly ill, that probability rate will be a lot lower than the worst case situation being set out by the media and health authorities.

That's when you'll see rail travel recovering. And air, sports, movies, concerts, etc.

Do you think that people will continue to stay in hibernation and avoid contact with others over a potential disease that in its worst manifestation for the USA only affected 0.6% of the population? I'm sure there will be at-risk populations for whom that's a good idea, and they should continue to exhibit social distancing regardless of COVID being active.

Here's the math for just NYC, which was the hardest hit. 8.5M people, 56,000 cases, 11,000 required hospitalization. That works out to 0.66% and 0.13% on a probability basis.

Yes, absent social distancing, those rates could have been much worse, but arguably we probably have at least a 1% chance of getting sick anytime you get on a commuter train or go out in public.

The future is relative to your timescale. Six months? Ventilators abound and there are likely some proven treatments. Six days? The outlook is pretty dire if you can't get people to places where the facilities can treat them.

Here's an Amtrak question, which car type would be easier to use for a "hospital train"? I keep thinking about Amfleets and those curved interiors being disadvantageous. Horizon cars on the other hand might work really well. Not sure how quickly seats could be removed or if you would even want to attempt that.

Regardless, I see a possibility for Amtrak to play a role that is potentially meaningful and all of this still assumes only "intra" state movement.

SouthernRailway wrote: ↑Sat Apr 04, 2020 5:30 am I’m taking Amtrak shortly for an overnight long-distance trip, instead of flying. I figure that flying is safe, but the trip to the airport, and being around people at the airport, is not. I can walk to the train station, avoid people, board the train by myself and then be in an enclosed room, and that all sounds safer.

Agreed there... with the note that a lot of flights are canceled, others are so sparse it's hideous, and some airports (BWI in Maryland) are closed to everyone but staff (airline/airport) and ticketed passengers. Not a lot of flying going on!

gokeefe wrote: ↑Sat Apr 04, 2020 2:25 pm The future is relative to your timescale. Six months? Ventilators abound and there are likely some proven treatments. Six days? The outlook is pretty dire if you can't get people to places where the facilities can treat them.

Here's an Amtrak question, which car type would be easier to use for a "hospital train"? I keep thinking about Amfleets and those curved interiors being disadvantageous. Horizon cars on the other hand might work really well. Not sure how quickly seats could be removed or if you would even want to attempt that.

Regardless, I see a possibility for Amtrak to play a role that is potentially meaningful and all of this still assumes only "intra" state movement.

You have to do the Viewliners an anything that you can shove through the Hudson tunnels. There's no way around it.

Strangely enough, after some Googling... I found http://railwaysurgery.org/Army.htm which described the US Army hospital trains.

gokeefe wrote: ↑Sat Apr 04, 2020 2:25 pmHere's an Amtrak question, which car type would be easier to use for a "hospital train"? I keep thinking about Amfleets and those curved interiors being disadvantageous. Horizon cars on the other hand might work really well. Not sure how quickly seats could be removed or if you would even want to attempt that.

I don't mean to be glib, but baggage cars are the deal here. Roll beds in, roll beds out. Secure them perpendicular to direction of travel with 3' and a curtain in between.