Amtrak Downeaster Discussion Thread

I agree, Tadman.

I bet most people, including most reps and senators, don't know how few people die on trains, because reports of train wrecks often cite a yearly death toll without saying how many are people hit by trains. And even if they did, most people seem to favor those who get hit. Indiana has a lot of grade crossing collisions (we have a lot of grade crossings with a lot of trains, including a lot of unsignalled crossings on country roads) and the general public opinion seems to me to be that it is somehow the railroad's fault -- for not cutting the brush or not providing flashers or gates where there is poor visibility, which is actually a reasonable complaint, or for going too fast, or just for existing. I have rarely heard anyone except a cop or a railroad rep admit that the driver most likely raced the train; ordinary people seem to assume they could not see or hear it coming.

The problem is your average voter is a car driver, not a train rider.

Saturday morning, I drove to Woburn to pick up someone from #692. As the train pulled (pushed?) into the station, I noticed a dead turkey plastered on the front of the NPCU. The train must have hit the bird en route. 692 departed Woburn, and presumably arrived in Boston 15 minutes later, with the dead bird still on the front of the train. That must have been a grotesque sight for waiting passengers at North Station to see, and I pity whomever was tasked with cleaning it up.

Ever cleaned up a buzzard or vulture hit ?

How about a cow? The shop guys cussed me for a week having to clean that mess up.

The DE does encounter wildlife on a pretty frequent basis, unfortunately. I've been on the train when we've hit turkeys, pheasants, and deer. It's quite unusual for the victim to remain attached to the lead unit, however.

deathtopumpkins wrote:This is correct, but it's less to do with safety and more to do with operations. Cars are opened as needed starting at the locomotive end - because that's the end of the train where the mini-high platforms are at all stations. If there's enough ridership to warrant all cars open, then they'll open the cab car.

Not true. The policy prohibiting passengers from riding in the control car off peak existed far before the practice of only using cars closest to the engine. This is for the safety of the passengers and the safety of the crew.

Arborwayfan wrote:I agree, Tadman.

I bet most people, including most reps and senators, don't know how few people die on trains, because reports of train wrecks often cite a yearly death toll without saying how many are people hit by trains. And even if they did, most people seem to favor those who get hit. Indiana has a lot of grade crossing collisions (we have a lot of grade crossings with a lot of trains, including a lot of unsignalled crossings on country roads) and the general public opinion seems to me to be that it is somehow the railroad's fault -- for not cutting the brush or not providing flashers or gates where there is poor visibility, which is actually a reasonable complaint, or for going too fast, or just for existing. I have rarely heard anyone except a cop or a railroad rep admit that the driver most likely raced the train; ordinary people seem to assume they could not see or hear it coming.

You make some good points. Here's what I don't get: the phrase "why don't you go play in the highway" is an insult. It's an insult because you'd have to be nuts to go out onto an active highway. We have a culture that stops are stopsigns, obeys red lights better than most other countries, has learned to quit drinking and driving, etc... But the train tracks? Screw it, in the USA you can cross racks at any time, gates up or down, the horn means nothing. It's the train's fault if it runs you over. How is it that people will wait at a stoplight but not a gate? It's just a darn stoplight for big heavy trains rather than Honda Pilots and Lexus GS400's.

I have always thought that we should get rid of flashers and or gates and put up regular traffic lights. As you say, people are more likely to stop at stop lights than RR crossing lights.

dgvrengineer wrote:I have always thought that we should get rid of flashers and or gates and put up regular traffic lights. As you say, people are more likely to stop at stop lights than RR crossing lights.

I saw an article a couple of years back where essentially this was being done. More accurately it was traffic lights in addition to the standard crossbucks and flashers.

Part of the problem apparently is that folks simply aren't nearly as aware of trains and train crossings as they were decades ago. But EVERYONE knows a redlight.

So you may start seeing more and more of these dual setups.

dgvrengineer wrote:I have always thought that we should get rid of flashers and or gates and put up regular traffic lights. As you say, people are more likely to stop at stop lights than RR crossing lights.

I have too. People seems to think that red flashing lights are "optional" or "I can go if I think it's clear." A standard red, solid, not-flashing traffic light is viewed (by most anyways) as "I HAVE to stop, and wait, no matter how long, even if I am inconvenienced and upset."

Interesting thing is I have seen some places where railroad crossings ARE connected somehow to traffic lights, at particular locations, like blind right turns adjacent to tracks. So it CAN be done. I just don't know expensive or difficult such arrangements are.

Alan

I can think of two next to each other in Waltham, MA: Moody St and Elm St, on the MBTA Fitchburg Commuter Rail. The traffic lights do give added visibility and keep the autos 5-10 feet further from the track than the gates. Much less likely to drive through when you are far from the track.

This is the case in Newmarket, NH where the 108 crossing signal is tied into a set of lights on 108 and Gerry Ave that are also used to stop traffic when emergency vehicles are entering 108 from the nearby Fire Department.

That said as someone who walks that road occasionally, the crossing signal itself is quite weathered and rusty at this point.

NJT Light Rail uses traffic signals in lieu of gates at various crossings in Hoboken and Jersey City.

New York State tried putting standard traffic signals at railroad crossings about 1980. Long before that, Philadelphia Transportation Co. had a 2 color (red and green) traffic light to protect the entrance to the Cheltenham & Ogontz Ave. loop, and Philadelphia Suburban Transit Co. had 2 color (flashing yellow and steady red) traffic lights at some grade crossings near Drexel Hill, Pa. But they have to be enforced by the traffic police, or the public will quickly learn that those are not real traffic lights, just railroad or trolley signals.